· #26 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post The car tops out at 80 km/h downhill, it is like a limp spaghetti noodle, you can't miss it......Is there any display indication of this limp mode? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #27 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post Mine had the check engine light on.As promised earlier, the pictures of the EGR valve unit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #28 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post Is there any display indication of this limp mode?No... but trust me you will know instantly when it does happen, its usually accompanied in my car by swearing and frustration.....you wont get better than 2,000 rpm out of your engine in higher gears, the car doesnt accelerate or even keep up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #29 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post I have 650 limp mode free kilometers since cleaning out the mixing chamber on Sunday, and I have been driving the car harder than normal......How did you clean it out?While I was waiting to get mine replaced, I loosened the big hose at the end and sprayed in some Milligan's. Helped a little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #30 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post It would be interesting to inspect two EGR valves, one from a car that runs mostly Bio-deisel and one runnign regular deisel to see if there is any appreciable difference in crud build up in the EGR. I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding the quality of Canadian Diesel and it would be nice to know if it is making a difference.Black soot build up is usually due to carbon, not sulphur, but perhaps the sulphur plays a part in incomplete combustion. Or maybe the different chemical composition of bio would burn cleaner. Certainly that is what I have heard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #31 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post It would be interesting to inspect two EGR valves, one from a car that runs mostly Bio-deisel and one runnign regular deisel to see if there is any appreciable difference in crud build up in the EGR.True! But driving styles could be a factor as well.If anyone has a day off through the week in SW Ont I would be willing to do an examination. Mixed?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #32 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post How did you clean it out?See thread here.................... linkyA day off during the week...........don't make me laugh..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #33 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post Thanks for the link! I missed those pictures. That explains everything and now I know how to clean it while on the car. After examining my unit, that was off the car, I'm sure yours will be good for a long time unless that little plunger sticks. Yours looked more clogged than mine, which explains why you went into the big limp mode.I think I will put an EGR clean out on my maintenance schedule every 40,000 kms. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #34 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post Coming home last night from a long drive (about 1000 kilometres or so to visit my grandmother) I went into full-blown limp mode. My engine light has come on and off for a while now over the last few weeks - it is indeed the EGR valve (thank you, Scangauge!). I managed to drive it at 100 km/hr. for a couple of hours - I even did a top-speed test in limp mode: 120!This is the fourth time over the last two years I have had problems with my EGR. I am really frustrated with this: I drive a lot of highway kilometres, I regularly drive at top speed for extended periods, I use a combination of Milligan's and another diesel additive from Lubecorp (which claims to clean EGR valves), I buy diesel from different vendors, I carefully check my oil every time I change it. Etc, etc, etc... Unfortunately, biodiesel is not available in Lethbridge yet, but when it comes, I'll be buying that.What the hell is going on with these things? No wonder there is no diesel here in the new Smarts - I cannot imagine the general public putting up with this like we do.I have heard that VW has had similar problems, but surely they cannot be as widespread as ours - I see hundreds and hundreds of TDIs driving around. It seems like every Smart has had this problem, in addition to the faulty A/C. Is this a full-blown design flaw?Sorry for the vent. I am just sick of this - it seems like no matter what I do to the car, this stupid problem keeps coming back and rearing its ugly head.Ross Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #35 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post I can understand where your coming from Ross......thankfully it seems thus far to be an easy maintenance procedure (hell if I can do it I monkey could do it) with the unit in place and very accesible.... it could be far worse... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #36 Posted August 16, 2007 · Report post The cdi was designed to burn the better quality Euro diesel fuel.Even our ULS diesel does not match their's. That is most likely the problem.It is an irritation, but we'll have to learn to live with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #37 Posted August 17, 2007 · Report post I wonder why some people hit the EGR problem multiple times, and some never hit it???Driving styles?, luck of the draw on fuel? ?????So far (28,000km) I've been lucky.The VW TDI's certainly hit it as well. Tomorrow a guy is coming over to have the "mod" done to his TDI. It will be the 10th one I've done.Later! Dang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #38 Posted August 17, 2007 · Report post Ross - I'm just curious. Would you mind describing your normal driving style? Heavy foot? ..... Light foot? Lower RPM style so the engine works in the lower RPM range. Higher RPM with the engine running looser with less load.Thanks,Fred. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #39 Posted August 17, 2007 · Report post Everyone keeps saying that CDN diesel is still contaminated. With what, I ask? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #40 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post My EGR had gooey soot in it, 1/3 - 1/2 clogged, but very little hard stuff. I use Milligan's most tanks (memory issues) and the occasional blast of cetane booster mixed with smidge of lead foot.I believe that being able to drive on sunny days with the roof down helps prevent the EGR from clogging. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #41 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post I believe that being able to drive on sunny days with the roof down helps prevent the EGR from clogging. That pretty much screws us coupe people then.......lol 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #42 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post Fred - one of the reasons that this frustrates me is that my driving style is really nothing out of the norm. I regularly go for long drives (at least once per week), and often at maximum speed (3,000 RPM for extended lengths of time). When I am just driving around town I generally try to keep it around 2,000 RPM, but I also run it up to the redline quite a lot, especially in lower gears. I would not say that I have a heavy foot (although it may sound like it), because I am always trying to get great fuel economy. Just a real mixture of both, I suppose.I have been using Milligan's for about a year now, and I also use LubeCorp's "Super Diesel Plus" additive, which I thought was doing a great job.I am no diesel expert, but I do know enough about them to know that diesels love to get nice a warm, and they love to drive for hours on end. Theoretically, my driving style should keep the innards of my engine spotless! If a drive through the B.C. Rockies and back doesn't clean out a diesel engine, then what will? Yet I did it, and my engine is gunked up worse than ever. -sigh-Has anyone ever thought about just removing the EGR valve altogether? I know I certainly have. I realise that it is there for emissions purposes, but obviously it is a pretty weak llink in the chain - and I really don't think our little engines put out all that much pollution, especially if we are using a product like Milligan's.This weekend I will be doing a service to the car, I am going to clean out the intake. I would really like to take out the EGR valve itself and take a look at it as well.Dan - my car didn't start to have problems until it was well beyond 28,000 kilometres, so maybe you just haven't had enough fuel go through your system yet. I know Ross here in Lethbridge had EGR problems last year, though, and his car was pretty low kilometres. And what is the work you are going to do for the TDI?Anyhow - in the long run, I am sure this is going to be minor, especially once we start burning biodiesel in earnest. It's just tiresome at the moment. And I agree with the above poster - I think cleaning out the intake/EGR is just going to be a regular 40,000 kilometre service issue. Once I do it this weekend and see how easy it will be - I am sure it will be a 20,000 kilometre feature.Take care everyone; Ross - I'm just curious. Would you mind describing your normal driving style? Heavy foot? ..... Light foot? Lower RPM style so the engine works in the lower RPM range. Higher RPM with the engine running looser with less load.Thanks,Fred. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #43 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post Taking the EGR valve out will also harm fuel economy and raise combustion temperatures significantly. Believe me, you do not want to disconnect the EGR.How many km are on your car? Mine was changed at 67,000 but I only had one limp mode back in December 2006, so I am not sure if it was the culprit or not. So say 70,000-80,000 km at least, between decokes is not that hard to take, as far as I am concerned. I have never used biodiesel or any fuel additive.I am however looking forward to the dead simplicity of the engine in my new family car, a 2 valve SOHC gasoline job without any forced induction. Should be good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #44 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post [delete unintentional double post] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #45 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post ... Has anyone ever thought about just removing the EGR valve altogether?Yes indeedy Well, not removing it exactly, because the electronics won't accept that. But simply installing a blocking plate so the actuator can open/close but nothing happens - no mixing in the mixing valve. I think about this every time I am elbows-deep in the engine compartment. But haven't been in the right head space yet to make it happen. Got a custom block plate sitting in my tool box ready to go! Some day soon though... Bil PS since this mod is not approved (read: not legal) in Canada, any questions only by PM please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #46 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post I would encourage anyone who is seriously contemplating this modification to look at the smart technical CD (I and Duck in Ontario have a copy), which explains in some depth exactly what the EGR does.......PM me for more info. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #47 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post I would suspect that putting a plate in to block the EGR will put the car in permanent limp mode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #48 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post As far as driving styles go, I think the key may be engine load/ throttle position versus rpm.If you're not in the appropriate gear or are in the low end of the rev range and you "step on it" harder than the engine can burn the fuel, you are "loading" the engine and some of this oily unburnt fuel (smoke from the tailpipe) gets recycled through the EGR and potentially gunks up the valve.I believe a lighter foot starting off from a stop, if at all safe and possible, is a potential solution to prevent this from gunking up. Wait until the engine is at 2000 rpm + before pressing down harder on the pedal. I've been using Shell Ultra since new. Choosing the cleanest fuel (least smokey) you can buy also should help. To achieve the most efficient burn of fuel on the highway I always pull even the slightest grade at least at 2200 rpm. The only time I run at 1800 (start of peak torque) is on super flat roads with the lightest pedal pressure or least engine load. I use softtouch regularly while building up speed from stoplights on the highway and often let the engine run up to 3000+ to "stretch it's legs".I know I'm burning the fuel the cleanest I can because I'm averaging 3.6- 3.8 l/100 km on my routine 400 km trip on hilly terrain. I SuperFill every time and I usually lose the first blob at 230-250 kms. Just lost my third one at 401 km.We'll see if my driving style will have any bearing on the life of my EGR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #49 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post I would suspect that putting a plate in to block the EGR will put the car in permanent limp mode.Disconnecting the wiring plug will do that. But the guy who made this plate says he's run it in his CDi for years, driving over 150,000km, and has no problem. Even the emissions tests show no difference, so he reports.. B:sun: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
· #50 Posted August 18, 2007 · Report post Dan - my car didn't start to have problems until it was well beyond 28,000 kilometres, so maybe you just haven't had enough fuel go through your system yet. I know Ross here in Lethbridge had EGR problems last year, though, and his car was pretty low kilometres. And what is the work you are going to do for the TDI?Ross...There are some settings you can do through the computer that apparently fix the problem in VW's. Info here:Adjusting VW TDI...I don't actually have a VW, but am listed as a guy that has the VagCom tool, so get calls once in a while to adjust it. Out of curiosity, would you say the additives you've used, such as Milligan's and LubeCorp, have helped (went longer before clog up), hurt (perhaps contributed to the problem), or made no difference?Later! DangP.S.:And I agree with you. Your driving habits sounds like a perfect world for a diesel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
