EGR valve

[MikeT 744]

Lots of cdi drivers in Germany have ongoing problems with their EGR valves.So I doubt it's all down to the sulphur content.....

[Dennis 0]

Only MB has a database large enough through service/warranty repairs relating to fuel/mileage/driving conditions(location) to make any any correlation with EGR failures. I doubt they are going to share.

[Diesel Dave 11]

Only MB has a database large enough through service/warranty repairs relating to fuel/mileage/driving conditions(location) to make any any correlation with EGR failures. I doubt they are going to share.

Well I'm just guessing too but, I've noticed that there is normally very little smoke coming out of my remapped car which I usualy drive briskly with lots of RPM. The odd time, I will putter around at very low RPM for about 20 minutes at a time. If I then step on the gas, the cars behind me will nearly disappear in the smoke cloud. I have to think that if you drive slowly all the time to get maximum mileage or make short trips, you have a better chance of EGR problems. It would be interesting to know the driving habits of those with EGR problems. Likewise, I bet a lot of the harder drivers like me have had turbo trouble but no EGR problems.

[racer007 0]

When the MB Dealers are replacing clogged EGR's are they also cleaning your intake manifolds? On the VW TDIs a general rule is that if the clogging is bad at the EGR Valve the clogging is worse in the intake manifold. To clean the manifold safely and avoid solid particles falling into the pistons and risk piston valve contact the manifold has to be taken off to be cleaned. Are you guys getting this service done from the dealers to really free up the engines breathing? I just wondered if this is an issue as well with the Smarts as I look around at buying one.

[bilgladstone 13]

When the MB Dealers are replacing clogged EGR's are they also cleaning your intake manifolds? On the VW TDIs a general rule is that if the clogging is bad at the EGR Valve the clogging is worse in the intake manifold. To clean the manifold safely and avoid solid particles falling into the pistons and risk piston valve contact the manifold has to be taken off to be cleaned. Are you guys getting this service done from the dealers to really free up the engines breathing? I just wondered if this is an issue as well with the Smarts as I look around at buying one.

That is certainly what should be being done! But I'll bet you a dollar that it never is. I haven't ever heard of the intake manifold even being inspected, let alone removed and cleaned out.

Somebody - anybody! - please correct me!

Bil

[smart142 605]

I've never heard of it being done.I was talking to a newbie who has only 20,000 kms and he's had the EGR replaced already.He takes back roads and keeps the speed down.

[Diesel Dave 11]

The fuel is injected directly into the heads and the intake is only taking in air, right? Can't see a need for intake cleaning.

[bilgladstone 13]

The fuel is injected directly into the heads and the intake is only taking in air, right? Can't see a need for intake cleaning.

The EGR routes sooty, fumey exhaust into the intake air channel .That now-contaminated intake air is cooler than the exhaust gases, so there is considerable deposit buildup in the EGR mixer, and there will also be condensation in the subsequent intake tract and the actual intake manifold.

Depending on the same variables that cause EGR clogging, the intake and manifold may eventually have to be cleaned. It should, IMHO, be s.o.p. to clean the manifold whenever a clogged EGR is replaced or cleaned, just as racer007 suggests.

Bil

[MikeT 744]

Bil, are you volunteering to do a photographic How-To? You wouldn't want your car to be down on power on dyno-day, would you?

[bilgladstone 13]

Bil, are you volunteering to do a photographic How-To? You wouldn't want your car to be down on power on dyno-day, would you?

Hey, when I finally get around to stripping and cleaning my EGR etc, I'll definitely document it!Bil

[racer007 0]

Bil,Do a seach for Intake cleaning on TDIClub.com. There are several How To's in there with pics and ideas to use cleaning liquids as this stuff is really hard to clean out of the intake! Look at the before pics of the clogged manifolds and you will be shocked! Also you will find some tips to help keep this crud out of the engine. MB should really be doing this as I cant imagine their CDIs are free of this curse either. Dont go home without asking or insisting. I would like to know what people here find as I am looking to buy a Smart CDI.Jim

[Guest kwaldron]

I really like the look of the CCV filters they use on their cars to trap the oil and dirt flowing through the EGR. Has anyone looked at making one like their filter? It looks fairly easy to fabricate from simple parts. I know bil (or someone else) had fabricated one from metal but the plastic parts look much easier to deal with. The only challenge would be where to install it.

[2seatragtop 3]

Bill,The mazda problem was noted only when the "Check engine" light came on just before it started running rough at low revs.My wife had said previously that the car seemed to "resist reving and was grinding" but I hadn't noticed it on the few occaisions I drove it before this. I should have listened to her!

[bilgladstone 13]

I really like the look of the CCV filters they use on their cars to trap the oil and dirt flowing through the EGR. Has anyone looked at making one like their filter? It looks fairly easy to fabricate from simple parts. I know bil (or someone else) had fabricated one from metal but the plastic parts look much easier to deal with. The only challenge would be where to install it.

You nailed it I have done about 4 different versions of a CCV catchtank and/or filter and two problems have defeated me.Where to mount it? Well, at least in the 450's engine bay, there is NO space to put even a small one. So I tried mounting it "down under" near the driver's side valance bracket arm. Too far away; too cold.AND the volume of oil-laden fumes from the crankcase is unbelievable! A sealed condensate tank has to be emptied every few days or so else much oil builds up that it fills the tank and plugs the breathing tubes. A filter gets plugged in just a few days.So... the tank/filter needs to be as close as possible to the recirc system. Short runs of large bore tubing. All in one horizontal plane if possible, with a fairly large container for condensate and a big filter. This must all be housed in the engine bay where it gets engine heat to keep it well warmed.That said, since the last iteration I tried, I have stripped out the airbox and now have the possibility of some more room to accommodate a CCV kit of some kind. But I have settled for the time being on just plugging the crankcase recirc inlet in the TIK, and irresponsibly venting the fumes to atmosphere. This is definitely an efficiency enhancement.Bil

[smartcruzin 0]

Are there any fuel additives, such as Milligans, that you guys from the TDI club are using to keep your intakes clean?Once they're clogged is there anything effective that can be added to the fuel that would clean without removing the manifold?This is what Bil Gladstone has been talking about for sometime. He's been using a CCV filter to catch oily vapours and crud before it gets recirculated through the intake again. What's been happening with that Bil? Have you modified it again or just eliminated it out of the car?BTW, the TDI club is a good source of information on small diesels. I've visited frequently myself.

[bilgladstone 13]

Look up ^ :thumbup:I also occasionally throw in a dose of Prestone Diesel additive to help remove carbon depositsB:sun:

[Guest kwaldron]

The problem is that this is an injection engine. No fuel flows through the intake, so no clean-up there. The only possible intake cleaning benefit from a fuel additive is if some of it escapes unburned as blow-by or exhaust gas and ends up being recirculated. Given the small amount that is put into a tank and the rather good burn efficiency of this little diesel this is likely to provide no intake passage cleaning benefit.Perhaps what we need to do is idle the engine while spraying large amounts of carb cleaner into the intake. Only kidding.

[bilgladstone 13]

The problem is that this is an injection engine. No fuel flows through the intake, so no clean-up there.

The true problems are the CCV recirculation system in this engine and the EGR system, whereby products of combustion - any unburned fuel, evapourated crankcase vapours, and sooty particulates are introduced into the air intake.

A complex mixture of hot, oily fumes flow through the entire intake, beginning upstream and downstream of the turbo, and condensing in the relatively cooler EGR, intercooler, IC pipes, and intake manifold. Clean-up will eventually and inevitable be necessary.

Bil

[Gent 1]

My brother-in-law uses a product by "Wynn's" called "EGR3 aerosol for diesel engines" with good results on his truck. Basically, you get the engine warm, disconnect any pipes up to the intake, then spritz this stuff in while keeping the revs at about 2k.You'd still have to do a manual clean eventually, but this seems to keep things down quite well in his old beast.

[Guest kwaldron]

Excellent. Have to look that up and then figure out what needs to be disconnected and where to introduce the magic stuff.

[Dennis 0]

Any DIYers might want to try Seafoam Deep Creep spray and dental picks to clean the carbon deposits on the EGR valve. Its available at NAPA and others. It seems to be a favourite in other car forums over carb/brake cleaner. Also very highly rated is Amsoil Power Foam, but is harder to get. They can also be used as a general purpose penetrating oil. DO NOT use them inside the diesel engine.

[mattdaddy 0]

92,000km and never had a limp mode (knocks on my noggin). You guys make me paranoid of a problem... ;)Periodic bio use, mix of driving style daily, lucky bastard... who knows what the reasons are?

[smart142 605]

Why not invest an hour's time and check the egr to avoid a problem?Chances are it will need to be cleaned out. Mixed showed the way.

[asmart42 0]

Checked my egr valve and was surprised that I only found a small amount of gunk deep down, very soft and easy to remove, so I cleaned it out and we are now good to go.When I took off the hose I first expected the small opening to be partially plugged but it was just like new. The car has 86,500km. 60% highway driving. In the morning less than 1 minute to the highway. May make a difference.asmart42

[Duck 16]

I still need to see a cut-away or whatever of the EGR valve, because I'm not sure the clean-out I did really did anything at all.Without seeing a flow diagram of where the gases are supposed to go I have no idea what bits are supposed to lead where.......-Iain