Matt A

TDC PowerBox

208 posts in this topic

I think for the most part, our little CDi doesn't make very high EGT except speedracers and long distance trips. That's part of the reason EGR gets plugged and also cat' is not so effective as it could be. I haven't installed my EGT gauge yet but that is my "educated guess."B:sun:

Well Bil you are pretty close but not exact. Exhaust gas temp in a diesel is the amount of work. Long distance trips have nothing to do with it.A diesel makes heat when it works. Just driving down the road for five min. or five hours will generate the same EGT. Go up an incline and EGT goes up. Go down an incline and EGT goes down. Add a load, a trailer and EGT goes up.As an example on my truck, a Dodge/Cummins, on a grade pulling a trailer at full throttle maintaining 60 mph I might show 1100F EGT. If I drop a gear and can make maybe 65 mph, the EGT may go to 1175F to 1200F. On a level road at 65 mph the same load might show 600F, 70 mph might show 700F or 800F. BTW the change in EGT is pretty fast, you step on the throttle and the temp goes up in seconds, not minutes.After reading all the chat going on here I bought a CR Powerbox. For all of my Canadian friends this is one of the very few smart related times that there is an advantage living south of the border. I ordered the unit last Thursday and it was on my door step Monday afternoon for $229USD. Anyway I plugged it in an took a drive for a nice dinner, about 130 miles round trip. My seat of the pants meter is not nearly refined as much as Bil's but I did notice a difference. I didn't do any 0-60 runs but it definitely has more torque. I could hold top gear on grades with no problem that I would normally drop to 5th.I started showing 59.7mpg and 145 miles on the tank. This is on the Scan Gage BTW. When I got back I was showing 61.1mpg and almost 280 miles. I'm guessing I might have gained 2 1/2 to 3 mpg on the portion of the tank with the Powerbox installed.The other thing that I keep wondering about are the Scan Gage numbers. If the Powerbox works by making the computer think that it's feeding less fuel than it really is, is the Scan Gage seeing the real fuel flow or what the computer thinks the flow is? It might take a few tanks of fuel to see whats rally happening.

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Good info, Dan... thanks! I've heard UK reports where guys have made sustained highway runs at high speed and at night someone in the car behind can actually see a glow on the road from the turbo/manifold running cheery red!Regarding the gauge getting mislead, I had my X-Gauge/CDi pretty much dialled in and now it's all over the map again versus pump and paper calculations... but I'm hoping that the CR fuelling increase (the cheaper one, not the dialable remote) is more-or-less linear and I can find the X-G sweet spot again.cheers!B:sun:

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Yeah Bil, those midnight runs can be pretty wild but I think the glow is from the fact they are flat out rather than that they have gone a long distance. I think I read some time ago that you want to keep the EGT entering the turbo at or under 1200F on a diesel to prevent turbo damage/meltdown. It's been awhile so I won't swear to that number but I think it's in the ballpark. Maybe the guys from Canadian Turbo can verify.

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Since I don't intend to drill into the cast manifold, I was thinking to put in a screw-in sensor right at the curve of the downpipe. That's probably within 15-20cm/6-8in of the wastegate.What do you reckon, Dan? Good enough?B:sun:

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That's where many install the sensor. The only problem is there is some cooling taking place going through the turbo. I'm sure there is a formula to guesstimate the temp drop so you have an idea of what the turbo intake is seeing.If you put the sensor ahead of the turbo, you get a better read but you risk the chance of the sensor tip breaking off and taking a ride through the turbo. Not really a good idea.If you drill the manifold casting many times you have enough material to run a tap and install the sensor. If you use the header pipe downstream of the turbo you wind up having to weld a fitting on because the pipe is too thin to tap a good thread.Watching the EGT is a very enlightening. It really tells you what your engine likes and dislikes. The other thing I'm really looking at is an oil pressure gauge. I'm really not comfortable not knowing what's going on and I can't beleive that none of the after market units, X Gauge, Scan Gauge and MDC show oil pressure. I would have loved to see what was happening on E3's car and the other recent member with oil pressure problems. I have a hard time accepting what Mercedes is saying on these cars.

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That's great info guys, it's pretty much what I was looking for when I brought up the topic of high EGT. I'm seriously thinking of a CR box as I am nowhere near anywhere I can get remapped, plus it's less money. Can you recommend any good EGT gauge kits?

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andy I like Isspro. It's a quality instrument that has been around for many years. VDO and Auto Meter are good units also. Expect to pay $200-$300 for a complete set up.

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And where would it be possible to mount such a gauge in a smart dash?

You will have to make, or have made for you, a custom gauge mount.Bil :sun:

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So I recieved mine just today. Unfortunately I gotta report that I didnt notice that much of a power gain as most of you have stated. I notice VERY minimal, or if any, shift lag improvment. (Maybe 0.25 second quicker?) The acceleration was more or less the same. I do notice it was quicker around 4th or 5th gear, but nothing dramatic anywhere else. The only noticable improvement was the studdering was gone while the car trys to engage 1st gear. Other wise, I'm saddly to report that it didn't really live up to my hype. Possible factors:1) Well my car is bone stock. I know Bil and a few others have remaps on top of this.2) I was dialing the box left and right when I first got it, and I dont even remember which way I turned. However, I did follow as the menu suggest 24 revolutions left or right, and dial back opposite direction 12 times to get it back to neutral. (Oh by the way, I've probably dialed an extra 8 revs counter clockwise for this test)3) Maybe I wasn't driving long enough for the ECU to adapt to the new signals? I probably just drove 4 KM around my block to have a brief test.4) Well I hope its not this one, but I'm mechanically stupid so its possible that I"ve plugged it in the wrong spot or something. I've attached a couple of pics to let you guys check my connections. I'll drive it more this weekend and give a 2nd update. Hopefully I can report on gas consumption as well.Thanks for any tips or advice in advanced!

post-3812-1197001367.jpg

post-1-1197001367.jpg

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You've plugged it in right... only place it will fit ;)Now that it's dialled up to 20/24 revolutions, you should be at the top 90% or so of the possible power range. Is the car smoking?The ECU doesn't have to adjust, I think. My car (and Iain's) responded immediately to the increased fuelling. I'm anxious to hear what you observe after running the car some more - especially on the highway and on grades. Push it a bit! Take it on a challenging route that you travel fairly often - you'll soon be able to compare whether you're gearing down less, or more easily able to accelerate, etc.Bil :sun:

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Now that we're seeing differing anecdotal results it would be really nice to get a dyno test to show true power uplift. I was considering buying one of these but absent any hard evidence of improved performance perhaps I'll go back to looking at a remap.

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Now that it's dialled up to 20/24 revolutions, you should be at the top 90% or so of the possible power range. Is the car smoking?

So I've dialed it to the max today (24/24 revolutions) and drove about 40 KM to work. No smoke at all (not that I can see from my rear view mirror) and I say there is no significant gain between 1st to 3rd gear. Power seems to be same as stock except the car stutters less between gears. Between 4th and 5th gear is more noticable with the power gain. Theres more power after 2500rpm in these 2 gears. At 6th is pretty much same as stock but you can hold the 6th gear longer without rumbles.

So all in all I dont think its a "WOW" type of power gain. It's more like...."meehh, feels about right for $230 worth of upgrade" type of gain. Shift lag didn't improve much but it does take away those annoying rumbles and stutters between gears tho.

Also I wonder is it cause my car only has 11,000 km on it and usually its when cars start to run at their peak performance. The powerbox might not seem to add to much at this stage. Probably with most of you im assuming your cars are all over 100,000KM and start to lose some performance so the powerbox might seem more significant? Just wilding guessing....

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I agree with everything you said... I too want to see the dyno results. I put mine back on last night, despite my car having asthma.-Iain

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I think people may be expecting too much from these units. Yes they feed a little more fuel through the injectors. The thing is if you push on the throttle you feed more fuel also. The ECU limits how much fuel you get and the Powerbox fools it to get a little more, not a lot more, just a little.If you notice when under load, say going up a grade, you push the throttle down half way and motor happily along. Now you push down all the way on the throttle and nothing happens. The ECU has limited the amount of fuel to the maximum rating of the engine. This is easily seen on your Scan Gauge as you will see 99% load many times when you have lots of pedal left. Add more pedal and nothing happens. Also try this while watching the fuel consumption and you will see no increase once you reach 99% LOD. The ECU is protecting the engine like Mother Mercedes wants it to.Back to the Powerbox, it fools the ECU to get a little more fuel gaining a little torque throughout the power range. You still can't fool the ECU beyond the maximum limits, you just get a little more power in the middle. Remember again that this as a tiny little engine and the gains will also be small. I think the gain is getting to a higher gear sooner and being able to hold that gear on a steeper grade rather than taking many seconds off the 0-60 time.If you want the big change, go the big bucks and get a remap. If you want a little gain for a smaller hit to the wallet, than look at the Powerbox.

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It's frightening how when going from 2-3 and 3-4, with it floored, the BANG of acceleration you get when the clutch closes up after completing the gearchange.-Iain

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Hi,I received my TD Box and I had to pay GST. PST, Custom Fees and ...I will just send a complain to Custom Canada . Is not fair to be charged Tax for products that are not sold in Canada.About the TD Box: it was easy to install and worked smooth with the default settings. I cranked 2 positions higher and the car was a different one.I drove to Toronto and back and observed only a small increase of consumption that might be related to winter tires and weather conditions.\Even my wife that "hates" my smart car and money put on cars asked me why didn't I buy it earlier. What a difference. I drove on HW 7 (not the highway) and I had to pass a lot of cars. In the 5th gear now I feel no difference ( as power and engine responsiveness ) from my SAAB 9-3 .As well in curves (90 degrees turns) now I can use the gear that the car is automatically moving to when I brake. Before, to move the car in the middle of the curve I had to do one extra shift down manually.About the lag between speeds shifting, almost none existing. Now in winter and in 1st, 2nd and reverse, I have to be careful to not push to hard the gas paddle as the ESP will kicked in right away.And interesting that my engine reaches faster the working temperatures, but stays at 80 degrees when is warmed as before.I do not know what impact might have in time to the engine , if any, but I decided that I will change sooner than recommended the oil. Adrian

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I too purchased a Powerbox and have been impressed with the results. I had the opportunity to test drive Matt's car beforehand and enjoyed how his car responded. Certainly made my decision to buy easier.The box is super easy to install, and can be removed just as easily if needed. I noticed the same benefits in my car as many have already claimed. For the low price of the unit, it is highly recommended. The car now performs like it should have direct from the factory. A very nice find!

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So after 2 weeks with the powerbox, I must say performance is better (especially in 4th and 5th gear). I dialed mine to the max and find gas consumption is still better than stock. :D Many thanks to this thread!! ;) I still dont know how some of you experience such great improvments in shift lag. I notice no difference at all (well it is smoother but not faster). <_<

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I am pleased to say that Santa brought around my TDC PowerBox, which I got installed super easily as everyone has said...I have to say I'm quite pleased. I find the ride much smoother on the highway, acceleration is a great deal peppier: its quite fun, and seemingly effortless by comparison. Shifting somehow, is also smoother, and the car recovers much quicker after downshifting with the TDC installed. I have mine dialed to maximum ( i guess that would be all 24 rotations), its a lot of fun. I think at least for now, this is the increase I am happy with. a re-map is more costly and not so easily tinkered with: highly recommended.

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I'm not an expert, but the TDC alter the signal coming from the computer to the injector.So if you have a remap that alter the computer itself, then the TDC box would then alter than already altered signal for even more fuel (or smoke for that matter).I think that would work, but not sure about any performance increase without increasing air (turbo boost) into the engine.That's my theory at least.

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Adding a power box after a remap is so much fun and it made quite a difference to mine. i got the remap done at rcts in calgary and have a cr digi box. that just made me want more so in also installed a vanakkins on top of it all. it only smokes when i have my foot on half throttle and above.

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So, If we put this box on an one of Eddy,s remapped cars, it will be even quicker?

Yes. Yes it will . ;) But you may need a new clutch in a year or so. When you need a new clutch, get the upgraded sport version.

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