Are anti swaybars available for the Smart?

[Coast Steve 1]

I haven't seen any heavy or aftermarket anti sway bars or harder bushings, advertised, anyone seen them?

[Gent 1]

Nope. There is an American member with a petrol smart down in California that custom fabricated a whole bunch of suspension mods for his ride. It was impressive, and I'm sure it was pricey. The name eludes me... anyone?

[Coast Steve 1]

I guess not, that's to bad.

[Sagittarius30 0]

I actually find the smart corners quite well for its height and length. I've tested out the limits of my smart's corning the other day, on a highway ramp that says 40km/h I was pushing 110km/h before I started to feel the car wobbling. Oh and this was all done with the stock eco tires. So I bet the wobbles were from my tire just catching bits its side wall. Imagine with better tires.....LOL!This is definately not the fastest car out there....but I must say I love throwing this thing in corners.

[Duck 16]

Don't swaybars work on the assumption that the frame is twisting? The tridion on the smart is so strong I would imagine that the dimensional flexing between the strut towers is negligible. Mike?-Iain

[MikeT 744]

Swaybars simply decouple the spring rate from the roll resistance. They restrict the displacement of one wheel relative to the other by attaching the outer ends of the suspension to each other and using the chassis as a base. So as one suspension unit compresses, the sway bar applies an opposing force (through torsion) to the opposite side, resisting the roll.You can also make a car sway less by stiffeneing the springs up, but that would be unacceptable an a car as stiffly sprung as the smart already is!

[Delta Mike 1]

my father's first car is the complete opposite of the smart in every way, its a 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass, with a 6L engine and 500 or so horsepower. he installed an anti-sway bar on it, he said, nearly right after he got it because the thing is huge and has too much power. not that american muscle cars ever handle for shite, but based on the functional description of what he gave me for that; seems to me that i agree with Mike T on all the reasons the smart would never need one.

[SCHMART 0]

Nope. There is an American member with a petrol smart down in California that custom fabricated a whole bunch of suspension mods for his ride. It was impressive, and I'm sure it was pricey. The name eludes me... anyone?

his screen name is Nick on the Smartenthusiast site

[Coast Steve 1]

Not swaybars, but they are nicely fabricated pieces.Thanks, SCHMART I will try to contact him.

[Francesco 71]

I think s-mart was selling thicker adjustable links for a while...

Yep: http://shop.s-smart.com/product_info.php?c...7c26db8e3567712

[Duck 16]

Swaybars simply decouple the spring rate from the roll resistance. They restrict the displacement of one wheel relative to the other by attaching the outer ends of the suspension to each other and using the chassis as a base. So as one suspension unit compresses, the sway bar applies an opposing force (through torsion) to the opposite side, resisting the roll.

You can also make a car sway less by stiffeneing the springs up, but that would be unacceptable an a car as stiffly sprung as the smart already is!

Oh, I thought a swaybar was this:

They are teh ghey. Everyone has one on their Sunfire in Woodstock. I know what component you're talking about, I just didn't know it by that name.

-Iain

[stikman 0]

Strut tower braces.But in the smart, it look more like link bars

[Delta Mike 1]

what would this do for the smart anyway????

[Coast Steve 1]

That bar stops the slight flex of the front shock towers under hard cornering and braking, making for a stiffer, solid feel, and so slighty improves handling.I would think You must do many more mods to your front end before you would need or even notice this bar. (like good springs, shocks, and tires)People throw them in just for the "look" usually.I have seen them used in front engine cars, where the engines weight, hard cornering, and braking want to flex the shock towers and the whole unibody front end. Don't think you would ever need one on a llittle rear engined smart, except maybe, a Smartzuki on full race slicks set up to roadrace.But maybe i,m wrong

[Coast Steve 1]

These are not for a Smart, just a sample

[Duck 16]

The fortwo already has that!It makes the body roll less, because the whole arm has to twist.Speaking of steering geometry and such, I hate the whole thing that the shock absorber cylinders themselves make up part of the suspension geometry. It alwyas bothers me thinking about cornering hard knowing the cylinder/piston are taking the side load. Dirty design! Double wishbone is so much more desirable.-Iain

[Delta Mike 1]

i get what it does, but it doesnt seem like it would apply to the smart until you spent WAY more money on a lot of other things.

[Overkll 0]

The fortwo already has that!It makes the body roll less, because the whole arm has to twist.Speaking of steering geometry and such, I hate the whole thing that the shock absorber cylinders themselves make up part of the suspension geometry. It alwyas bothers me thinking about cornering hard knowing the cylinder/piston are taking the side load. Dirty design! Double wishbone is so much more desirable.-Iain

That's why I LOVE my Honda Civic HB. Double wishbone FTW. But it is more expensive and takes up more space (I think?), not sure if you would be able to fit a wishbone suspension on the smart since it is so tightly packed.A swaybar would be much better on the smart than stiffer springs. Stiff springs are good for the track, but can be rough on the road. My springs on my Civic weren't even that stiff and the ride was jarring. Swaybars are essentially springs that only act when the car 'rolls', thus allowing for a smoother ride on bumpy roads. I agree the smart is pretty stiff already, but a sway would help to keep it from feeling like it is going to roll. However, a true coilover suspension and lowering would also be beneficial. Companies will make you a roll bar for any car. From what I remember, the price isn't all that bad either. You would have to check where/how it could connect and come up with the dimensions. The size of the bar is another issue altogether.

[Duck 16]

But it already has a swaybar...-Iain

[Overkll 0]

I haven't had a look under the car, is their a sway bar front and back? If so, getting a larger/stiffer one made would be quite easy. Essentially increase the spring rate without adding harshness to the ride. Lowering would be better (and look better too ), maybe next summer...

[Duck 16]

On the back the suspension is different, it's DeDion. Which means there's like a big C-shape frame hinged at a spherical bearing up front, two shocks at the back, and lateral displacement is forbiden thanks to a linkage at the back, running from a point on one side down to the other, and two other links.(It kinda bugs me there too because kinematically it's NOT correct)I love the idea though of increasing the torsional ridgidity of the torque tube/sway bar!-Iain

[bilgladstone 13]

Over on http://www.smartenthusiast.com, US member Nick made an "anti-sway" camber kit.

Not sure if the piccie will show up for you unless you're a signed-in member

They're made of "60% stronger then aircraft grade" aluminium alloy.

This pair replaces the criss-cross box steel set that the car comes with. Supposedly makes the rear end much stiffer.

Impressive....

,,,,,,,,,,

However the fortwo, with its DeDion torsion rig doesn't have an adjustable camber - doesn't need it, is what I'm told, since the camber does not change when you lower the suspension. So one could maybe do away with the adjusting nut and just fab bars with proper end fittings and bushings, as long as care was taken to measure the precise length to maintain the designed negative camber.

Or simpler still, replace the stock bushings with stiffer poly bushings...?

Bil

[Duck 16]

Bill; I'm not sure I follow you. There's no camber control at all on the rear frame, since it all moves as one unit and the bearing mounts for the wheels are welded right on. Camber has nothing to do with the replacement link the guy made.(spinoff note - it always makes me laugh when people say "Aircraft Grade" and suddenly that makes things seem so much better - it's just aluminium, if it's not sized properly then it's no stronger than what it replaced. Just picking a material is only part of the design process and doesn't necessarily mean something is better! / mechanical designer rant)The only reason the tierod you see above would need to be adjustable would be to get the right length to fit what was there in the first place. I really don't see how there'd be any advantage to that (although it does look cooler, I guess).Like I said, the geometry of those two links (you see the left one up top) is kinematically not correct - as the rear suspension is compressed, the links will want to "push wide" the C of the DeDion. This has always bothered me because it's inherently an overconstrained mechanical linkage!-Iain

[MightyMouseTech 0]

The fortwo already has that!Speaking of steering geometry and such, I hate the whole thing that the shock absorber cylinders themselves make up part of the suspension geometry. It alwyas bothers me thinking about cornering hard knowing the cylinder/piston are taking the side load. Dirty design! Double wishbone is so much more desirable.-Iain

Yes, they are called struts. And the Porsche 911 and BMW M3 seem to handle OK with struts at the front..

[bilgladstone 13]

Yeah... 'swhat I said. There is no adjustment for camber on the smart supension. The guy who made it calls it a "camber kit" - I suppose because all the other boy-racer cars have camber that needs to be adjusted when you "slam" the suspenders, and a popular aftermarket accessory for this is called - and is - a camber kit.

Advantage? I guess a stronger, stiffer member (no, don't go there....) with harder bushings to tighten up the action? Adjustment would only serve to snug up the fit better; not to actually change any spacing or geometry.

Can you 'splain me a little more about the 'overconstrained mechanical linkage' bit please, Duck?

B:sun: