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bilgladstone

Cafepress

50 posts in this topic

Its not about making money...as stated the storefront can operate on zero profit........its about an automatic way any club member can get club products.

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Hey, no rush. I built and announced the cafepress store for CsC in September of 2006 with the casual approval of the prior BoD (or maybe just the president - or was it Dean? - I don't remember) Take all the time you need.The cracking great $3.00 revenue to-date resides in limbo. I'll shut up now.B)

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Exactly..the money is a separate issue..the club can have products available for those that want them without spending any money and for that manner without making any money if that is wanted.... argument is not valid.

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Schmart's idea was really only to be able to buy some cool loot with the club logo on it...being the season of giving and all who wouldn't like to get something with Csc logos on it right? I dont think thats rushing into anything. Later if we decide to go a different route, you roll up the carpet on the cafepress site and switch.The other point Kwaldron makes is valid too IMHO and I have mentioned it already. brokerage fees and shipping etc etc...Up till now and for another month yet this has primarily been a Canadian smart site with international enthusiasts. Surely we can keep the vendor storefront and whatever else in the same country as the servers and everything else? It would make life cheaper in the long run not always having to pay exchanges and duty etc...especially if we are eventually get dinged again by the Canadian tax man...

Edited by I M SMRT

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Or just hit "add reply" at the bottom. Right beside "fast reply".Anyway.Guys... I know you all want a simple thing to happen, but you keep forgetting or aren't realizing why we are stuck on this. Be it the Cafe thing or whatever else, it doesn't matter... the problem is the same.You can't have a bank account owned by "thin air", right? And without an official organization, "Club Smart Car" may as well be "thin air". A bank will not give "the club" an account, and without a bank account you can't get a PayPal account.So the problem is simple and the same as its always been. The solution is a choice: a) We make the club official (20 months and counting on that path - still no success) or B) we trust it to ONE person. And I'm saying that one person has to be on the BOD because they were voted by the public, entrusting the fait of the club - which would include its finances.I offered up my personal PayPal account because its not used *much* - it is used, like when I do personal shopping and such on eBay, but its not intertwined with my SmartieParts account at least. However, that wasn't really all that well received and that's fine... I'm not going to push it.It is what it is folks... we can't change it just because we want it to happen now. - Steven

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There's too many questions, not enough answers and too many opinions.At this stage, I say no - we aren't moving forward with this at this time.Reason? No clear goals. Finances aren't set up yet.SCHMART, if the point is to get swag out there... for what reason? It has to be about raising money, which you say it is not. If it is not, then there's no point... so lets not make it about something else. There's no harm in it being about raising money and that is what it has to be about.So if we can't even agree on that... we need to discuss it further.And about discussing it... this is going on in too many places and its getting confusing.So this is the standing decision until further notice: Nobody has the club's permission to use its likeness, logo, wordmark or URL on any merchandise.For that to change, we need to get the discussion on point, in one area, with some clear understanding of goals and a plan.SameGuy, am I understanding that you are getting your personal PayPal account set up to work with the club? As our Treasurer, that is certainly your prerogative but I understood from previous comments that you were not willing to do that, and for understandable reasons. Keep in mind that it is tied to your personal bank account if you are going that route.Anyway - I'm sorry, but this is getting too confusing being in at least 3 places (plus a myriad of PMs) at once. Confusion + finances = uhoh. - Steven

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I think the CsC incorporation attempt with Industry Canada is still underway (that's what s_mack asked me to do anyway, and Gent generously agreed to take over because he'd done it before), so with a little luck we'll have that in place by next spring. Just in time for the next election, wey-hey!FWIW, I recall the decision to incorporate being taken about a year ago, when the first BoD was about 6 months from the end of its term. Ian would know for sure.

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I still know nothing about the incorporation efforts really. Actually, from my understanding and point of view - that effort is dead. I thought it had been resurrected, but something was supposed to be mailed to me and it wasn't (or at least I didn't get it). Honestly I've given up on that, but if something falls on my lap and it works that is still the preferred situation. - Steven

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Steve, that does not have to stop a cafe storefront for CSC..the products can be not marked up so there will be no income, no generated commision...but a vast aray of products available to members...so the money account can be argued separately .

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eh um guys think long and hard on this. I get feed back from members who love our T shirts but are unwilling to pay shipping on top. I have repeatedly stated that I am putting aside money from each club logo we embroider for the club but we have no bank account to deposit it in. Although I trust Steven to do the right thing. I come from this background;I was sitting on a market board where we all put money in so to speak when the board was a little shakey the pres. ended up with all the cash.We will continue to offer the club a discount on our QUALITY BAMBOO blend T's and continue to accumulate a few bucks for the club no matter what you decide. Just be wary about giving permission to paste the logo around. Make sure the right people get the revenue.In the imprint business we get offers of this kind all the time, they look good but believe me they are in it for the money and I personally would question the quality of the actual item. eg. I can get a cotton T shirt of questionable background(sweatshop inccured) for around a buck a T I have seen these offered for $2 to these clubs they slap a 40 cent a cost logo on them and offer them for 20 bucks. you tell me who makes the money.Any way just my two cents worth. not trying to suck up all your business lol. screenprinters rock and it would be fun to have it on mugs.Karen and JakeStitch N Smart

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Sooo I do not have permission to use the club logo? even though I have it in writing(I printed this out and kept it in my records) I also have one from Mercedes. from Sat. Mar.17,2007 from smart 142re garding T shirts"Looks like you can go ahead with the T shirts here's my response from Mike TPosted Mar.17 @007 8:47 pmRe T shirtssounds like a great idea! We ought to discuss it at BoD. if it is a for profit venture, if not (break even) I say she should be able to go ahead. as Bil gladstone did on the windsheield logos. As for whether is is a break even or for profit, I guess we trust the producer's word on that.Cheers MikeNow I do not make a profit on the T shirts. If you bought them from another silk screener or embroiderer you would have to pay to have them embroidered. That is what I add on.Having said that I caution you with the cafe press. Who is really making the profit here? and will they "capture" the club logo as I know some other companies have done inthe past requireing a license fee when you want to make something else for your selves.If I CANNOT make the club shirts fine be it I'm outta here. I have to tell you the other car clubs we now deal with do not have this turmoil. Schmart what is it that you want with the club logo on? Karen

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Karen... sorry, I should have been more clear.What I meant was... nobody talking about this Cafe press stuff have the authorization to go forward until we figure things out. I wasn't thinking about your arrangement with the previous BOD, which we eventually need to discuss (I know you're holding the money but eventually that has to go somewhere... our holdup, not yours) but is certainly still in effect.Sorry for the confusion. My comment does not impact at all on existing agreements (of which, yours is the only one that I'm aware of). Continue as usual. - Steven

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Yeah, the more I think about it the more I am leery about it.Still... Robert, if there's no going to be any revenue for the club, then there is really no point. Advertising of the club is a secondary benefit - its not like we sell Coca Cola. Someone walking down the street with a csc shirt is not likely to get any new members for us. Its not greed... its that we DO need money coming in to cover expenses.I also agree with Tardis about the quality. But mostly, its about the money... why give Cafe Press the profits associated with our club name? I would MUCH rather it go to Tardis and other club-contributing firms that are willing to work with us for both our benefits.Tardis... about the money... if the club decides that we're going to use a personal bank account for our finances, then that's the way it is. While I understand you concerns, they aren't entirely relevant... if I run off with the money that you collected on behalf of the club, that is the club's concerns, not yours. The club elected the BOD to handle the affairs of the club. Its not reasonable to have it sitting in your can indefinitely until we form an NPO, which is more and more looking like it will never happen. Now, we haven't yet decided how we're doing it and we do appreciate you holding on to it for us in the meantime, but when that decision is made... its the hope that you will send it to wherever we determine it should go, whether that's a cheque made out to "ClubSmartCar" or "James Earl Jones" is more or less irrelevant. That is one decision I will under no circumstances make unilaterally though. - Steven

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Thankyou for clearing this up. I did pm sameguy I beleive he is the Treasurer and as soon as I get the exact location to send the money and how I will. I do not want to monopolise the merchandise so to speak and would love an on line store front for the club I can't do it on my own anyway. I don't mind making the T shirts and hats but advertising running a store front(making a storefront) getting other merchandise would be best done by someone else. Preferable a club member. I have already sunk a lot of money into the club T's about a grand worth so I do not want to go deeper into debt without return.I just question the hurry up and do it attitude that is going on. If everyone wants the made in china, questionable sweat shop articles, then by all means go quickly grab profit and run. We personally bought the car because of the ethics of going greener, caring about the community including our car club community. Besides being a funky little beast.I would love a smart car mug and would preferr it was made by a Canadian or US potter (listen up potters) My feeling is that there are plenty of us that feel this way. As for the T shirts I am currently looking into the bamboo ones that will be produced, actually sewn up in Canada. As for now the Hemptown ones that are made in China but not in sweatshops and ethically grown bamboo will have to do.Sorry to ramble on carry on rattling each other's cage now :) Karen

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OK, I moved the very pertinent "What-ifs" discussion out of Schmart's poll thread and merged it with this one. The poll in "General Discussions" will be exactly that: a way to gauge what interest there is (if any) in having a CafePress storefront available to members for instant gratification in CsC merchandise purchases. If you have concerns about the proposed, no-profit CafePress storefront or how it should work, continue that here.

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I am very much against a no-profit scheme. The only way I'd back off that is if it were BOLDLY explained to people that purchasing the items is giving profit to Cafe Press and that we are not financially benefiting from it in the least. And then I'm sure nobody would bother. I don't think they want to buy shirts for the sake of having another shirt - they do it to do their part contributing.Even then though... they pay $20 for a shirt that gives us nothing. Then later, we ask for a donation but that's $20 that they don't have now. It just seems pointless and counter-productive to do it for no benefit.I'm not worried about taxes or claiming revenue - its so minor. The only stumbling point is where the money goes. I offered my PP account (and the fact they don't use PP doesn't matter - they just send the cheque to me, and I deposit it then upload it to my PP account) but SCHMART didn't think that was a good idea. That's fine, but my only insistance is that whoever it does go to be a member of the BOD.... me or otherwise. Some people don't have the same comfort level I do in utilizing their personal accounts for such things, because it can cause a headache in the event of an audit... but I'm moving to Belize on first notice of an audit anyway, so I don't care :) (yes, joke)Anyway... except for not staying out of it right there to give my 2 cents (again)... I'm staying out of it :) I trust SameGuy to make the right call in the best interest of the club. I'll play whatever part in it you want, but I'm not going to make the decision other than to say its SameGuy's decision. - Steven

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I've held off mentioning that I am/was planning to send a written proposal regarding the hemp/bamboo t-shirts like we had before that were received very well, but due to lack of mgmt (and money) became such a schmozzle.I still plan on submitting a written proposal for consideration, but am waiting to see the outcome from the cafepress discussions.

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Don't wait Keith... submit if you have a plan. I'm sure we'd appreciate the options.And I think everyone would agree that it would be best to have the club benefit and a member benefit, rather than having the club (maybe) benefit and a faceless corporation benefit.Just my thought (I thought I was staying out of this though :))Anyway... please... do submit your plan. Don't hold back. - Steven

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I'm glad I was given the chance to make the decision on this, and after a LOT of thought on this today, I've decided that we've waited this long for schwag-buying opportunities, we can wait a little longer to get things right.Ask those who know me (or my online personae): I hate stagnation and milquetoast reaction. But IMO the best course right now is to take all the positive energy we've seen over the last couple of days and channel it into finding the best solutions for the community as a whole. There will be continuing discussions both on and offline with various interested parties, but I don't believe anything will be settled before New Year's Day.

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Steve,there are alot of businesses using cafepress, so saying "maybe" benefit isn't giving the system a fair slant..maybe you can spend a few minutes at cafe press steve setting up a mock storefront for your self and see the possibilities and how it actually is simple , full of quality products and you contol what you want to profit..that way you can see the records and clear reporting that will be available..naturally the site makes their profit, but the posted prices is all inclusive so setting the additional on top would be up to you...the car rallys i have participated in the past couple years use them and the stuff is quality...it doesn't mean other vendors can't do their thing and "maybe" contribute but this would be a good thing to try....doesn't have to include swag...it can be whatever out of the menu you want....it certainly won't take away from other vendors and the complaints about shipping to Canada...well how about providing a break for the USA people who will be joining....

Edited by SCHMART

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Hey SchmartDo you have a poblem with our products? if so let us know we will endeavor to bend with the flow.I was told when I first started making the club T's that I could not make a profit from the club. Now it seem's you want this Cafe press, who are not members of the club that I know of, make a profit on the backs of the members.Make no mistake they do they are quickly becoming millionares. I have it in a report someplace around here. With all the cars being sold in the US, certainily there is a screen printer who sells cheap shirts and bling that will come out of the woodwork to cater to the US market?I personally, and not our the business point of view, hope this doesn't happen. What I beleive puts our club above many others is that we care about the enviroment, the people and the club members.I have asked if there was a particular product you are interested to let us know about it. please let us all know...is it the thong they offer LOL :lol: (Take this as a joke. I'm trying to lighten the mood)Karen

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Hey SchmartDo you have a poblem with our products? if so let us know we will endeavor to bend with the flow.I was told when I first started making the club T's that I could not make a profit from the club. Now it seem's you want this Cafe press, who are not members of the club that I know of, make a profit on the backs of the members.Make no mistake they do they are quickly becoming millionares. I have it in a report someplace around here. With all the cars being sold in the US, certainily there is a screen printer who sells cheap shirts and bling that will come out of the woodwork to cater to the US market?I personally, and not our the business point of view, hope this doesn't happen. What I beleive puts our club above many others is that we care about the enviroment, the people and the club members.I have asked if there was a particular product you are interested to let us know about it. please let us all know...is it the thong they offer LOL :lol: (Take this as a joke. I'm trying to lighten the mood)Karen

Ther are alot of reports your products are great..no problem..I think i have the bamboo one I got when i came to Canada..I just feel that a cafe press is another good avenue for the club in the big picture and the projected growth that will come with it..there are plenty of people to go around....and a 24/7 opportunity online would be nice...like you said, some of your customers do not like to pay postage and others have said the cafe press will cause problems with shipping and duty...well, that works both ways.....mabe that is a good thing for the USA people that would like to have the cafe press option..maybe it wouldn't be used by too many Canadians, maybe it wouldn't be used by anyone....maybe it will..it would be nice for the club and the USA members and future membeers to give it a try..thanks :) Edited by SCHMART

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I was told when I first started making the club T's that I could not make a profit from the club.

I doubt anyone told you that Tardis. Unless you mean they were speculating that they doubted you would, but as far as "can" meaning "allowed", that's ridiculous. Of course you can make a profit. The only stipulation is that the club gets paid for the use of its logo/wordmark/domain/etc. If I am mistaken and your agreement with the previous BOD did in fact stipulate that you were not allowed to turn a profit, then I suggest you make a new agreement with the current BOD. Actually, that's going to have to be the case anyway because no agreement is meant to survive indefinitely and there have been (and continue to be) so many changes that we'll have to revisit it sooner or later, hopefully to mutual benefit. Its not a top priority right now, and you are permitted to continue operating as you interpret your agreement until we get around to discussing it with you... but there were clearly too many holes in the current arrangements to be something we can effectively go by moving forward. That's not a knock against you or the previous BOD - just chalk it up to inexperience since it was the first such attempt to have a 3rd party logo licensing agreement at all.The Cafepress discussion is just that - a discussion. All input is welcome and the Treasurer and/or the BOD will make a decision on it at some point in the future. - Steven

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sorry but I have interpreted it as.. if I do not make a profit then it is ok to go ahead here is exactly what I have in writingre T shirts dated Mar. 15 2007 8;47 pm in the private messages area.Hi KarenLooks like you can go ahead with the t shirts here is Mike T's response to my question;"Sounds like a good idea! We ought to discuss it at BoD, if is a for-profit venture, if not (break even) I say she should be able to go ahead as Bil Gladstone did on the windshield logos. As for whether it is break even or for-profit I guess we trust the producer's word on that.Cheers Mike"Much the same thing was repeated by the then rep Glenn at a function later that month. I take it to mean they did not want me to make a profit on the club logo and I don't. I realize that was the old BoD and we have to hammer out a new agreement and we will in time. Now let this rest and lets move on I agree we need to discuss this and get it settled. I know this is a discusion that is what I am doing.I guess I just don't want our club to look tacky, my opinion. plus after being honourable and not making a profit in the past on the logo it is hard for me to turn a blind eye to any one else who does not have the clubs interests at heart just turning a profit.a metaphore; It is sort of saying to two small children " one can have the candy but not the other who has been standing in line longer" I'm sure you all get the drift of my meaning. Just putting my case forward. My new years resolution is I am no longer going to sit around quietly.Karen

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If the club remains profitable on its logo that is a good thing.

Edited by SCHMART

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