winter driving

[Judy 0]

Hi! I just got my new smartcar on saturday and I want to drive in winter. Will it start in the winter without being plugged in? At 30below.

[MikeT 744]

If it's a gasoline car, it won't have a block heater.

[Judy 0]

Does it start in 30 below without one?

[MikeT 744]

Hard to say, it probably should. You could always get an oil pan heater in lieu of a block heater. That would be kind to the engine.

[Judy 0]

Thanks I'll have to check that out.

[Bailey24 0]

Hard to say, it probably should. You could always get an oil pan heater in lieu of a block heater. That would be kind to the engine.

Is that a dealer - installed thing, Mike?

[yolanda 0]

I'd say if it's not garaged you need to speak to the dealer about it because its unreasonable to assume it won't need something to warm it up a bit! This is especially true given that the battery stays cold long after the engine's been running due to it's placement in the passenger footwell rather than the engine compartment. You might want to look into one of those solar battery charger deals to lay in the window in the event you are an outside parker. Cars parked in unheated shelter usually do much better because the air is still and the heat doesn't get sucked away as deeply.I have an oilpan heater that's been in my possession many many years. It's magnetic and has a big plastic stick handle jutting out and a cord dangling off. You just magnetically jam it on the bottom of the oilpan at night and plug it in. When ready to go, unplug and yank off. :-)

[booneylander 37]

I can't imagine a gasoline car would have any trouble getting started even at those temps, it's just a tiny little 1.0L triple after all. An oilpan heater is a very good idea if you want to keep your car in good running order for many years to come, 90% of engine wear occurs during startup and in the few moments afterwards until oil pressure is up and stuff starts flowing everywhere. You can imagine oil doesn't flow nearly as well at -30 as it does at +30, so it takes that much longer to get everything lubricated at startup, and thus, causes that much more wear.

[MikeT 744]

Is that a dealer - installed thing, Mike?

No, it'd be sourced from CDN Tire or another similar place, and self-installed. You could ask your dealer if they'd do it for you.Edit: spelling Edited August 26, 2008 by Mike T

[Onyx11 0]

I asked my dealer about block heaters and he replied today

His quote:

There are no block heaters in any Mercedes cars due to the flexible service ie 15000 km intervals for oil changes. That technology dictates that block heaters are not required for any car and it has shown to be true even in -45 weather.

Anyone out there that has "real life" experience with winter starting in a part of Canada that uses block heaters regularly ie Alberta?

I look forward to input. Thanks for the oil pan heater answer already posted.

[Francesco 71]

lolz

[Les 0]

I've had my smart since Jan of this year, so I went through the worst part of a Saskatchewan winter. Started with no problem at -30c but wouldn't at -40c.

[denisjolicoeur 0]

Does it start in 30 below without one?

Last winter mine started 3 mornings in sub -35's and there was at least another 5 or 6 mornings of sub -30's. Edited August 26, 2008 by denisjolicoeur

[Onyx11 0]

I've had my smart since Jan of this year, so I went through the worst part of a Saskatchewan winter. Started with no problem at -30c but wouldn't at -40c.

So how did you solve the "no start" at -40?

[Les 0]

Didn't start it until it warmed up a bit. I'm retired, so don't have to be any particular place at any particular time.

[swl 13]

His quote:There are no block heaters in any Mercedes cars due to the flexible service ie 15000 km intervals for oil changes. That technology dictates that block heaters are not required for any car and it has shown to be true even in -45 weather.

Tell me, are there any outward signs of this guys delerium?

[beafus 0]

Hi, picked up my new Smart in Jan 08 and had a very hard time believing I didn't need a block heater. Lived in Calgary all my life, WE DO BLOCK HEATERS!!!!!!!!!!!. Well I am a believer now. This past winter it sat outside all night, I work 11pm to 7am and started every time.

[Francesco 71]

To be honest, I think block-heaters for most cars are just a bit of hype.

We get very cold winter out east, too -- -30°C lows for weeks at a time. I've had block heaters on every car I've owned; I rarely used them. The only winter I used one regularly was when one of my small Asian cars hit "middle age," before getting a new battery, and before realizing that my last fall-time oil change was 10W30 non-synthetic. Once I replaced the battery with an Optima Red Top and did a 0W30 synthetic, I stopped using the block heater.

OTOH, if I were leaving the cdi fortwo out every night, all winter -- and hoped to make it to work every morning -- I wouldn't hesitate to use the heater. That said, it sat outside at work all winter and started without fail, even after several hours at -30° or so.

[bilgladstone 13]

Not just a question of, "Will it start?" It's also what's going on inside the poor wee engine when it starts up cold. Want the engine to last longer? Warm that oil before you switch it on!B

[Francesco 71]

We'll agree to disagree on that. That's the whole point of the 0W (and even 5W) oils available nowadays, and synthetics help even more. Leave a bottle of Mobil 1 0W40 out overnight when it's -30° out; in the morning it will flow almost as freely as at +20°. Oh, wait. You live in YLW... you'll have to trust me on this! LOL ;)Start the engine, (on the fortwo) wait for the fan to tick into its "faster" speed -- about 15 seconds -- and drive of slowly and gently. The 0W synthetic will circulate right away. Don't rev over 3000 until the coolant temperature reaches 40° (one blob). All my cars, no engine wear issues, even into the hundreds of thousands of Kms.

[MikeT 744]

Bil is right, it's not just the thinner oil on startup (hot oil is a LOT thinner than cold 0 weight oil) but also the general warmth of the engine itself when it first turns over and fires, both of which are significant factors in an engine's lifespan. Most wear occurs at startup.

[Francesco 71]

Not arguing about wear at start-up, just that there is little difference between +20°C, 0, and -30° that could be addressed by the little amount of warmth gained by the block heater. It will get up to temperature quicker, which will help efficiency for the first few Kms, and may help with heating the interior. But most gas engines and larger diesels that are properly maintained and have low-weight oils start up just fine, and circulate oil just fine when driven appropriately. A bigger concern is the canister oil filter, which has no anti-drainback diaphragm. A regular oil filter would be a bigger aid in preventing start-up wear than a block heater does for the few times you might use it each winter.

[MikeT 744]

Everyone keeps saying the oil filter lets all the oil flow back into the pan when the engine is off. I have never noticed the oil pressure light stay on longer than a "normal" car in the smart after it starts.In my Peugeot 405, when the Purflux filters it uses have failed (three times due to sticky flow-back plates) the oil light stays on for about 2 seconds after the engine is running. That is evidence of flowback. I've never seen anything in the smart to suggest that this ever happens.My 1966 Peugeot 404 has cartridge oil filters like the smart (only ten times larger) and it does have an anti-flowback device built into the filter holder. and upon startup, it behaves like the smart - the oil light goes out right after the engine is started.

[brahmy 0]

I bought my smart in January of 2008 and the oil pan heater was a lifesaver in the weeks where it got down to -45C or lower. The dealer installed it for $230, taxes included. I don't think there is a smart-specific model; they just had someone run out to Parts Source and grab a unit. I saved an hour of labour by having them run the plug out the back (see attachment) (pic: enchanted highway, North Dakota)

[smart142 605]

Here's an old thread about oil pan heaters for those interested. Mine cost about $80- is a Wolverine- and worked flawlessly the last 3 winters.