Seriously considering making Biodiesel at home

[steveyfrac 73]

Hey all,I'm looking for some community input on this. I'm very seriously considering making my own biodiesel for use in my Smart car. I'm already running purchased Biodiesel, from Truck Town terminals in Milton, and everything is going fine so far. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea? Some quirk of the smart car? I would only be running B100 biodiesel in the summer, and in the winter i would switch to dino-diesel for cold weather operation.I've done a fair amount of research on the topic, and to be honest with you, i can't see any problem with it, even if i'm not getting 100% conversion, and there is still a small amount of unconverted oil. Worst case scenario, i have to change my fuel filter more often. The pump and injectors shouldn't care, and the fuel lines are synthetic and should not be bothered. So long as the fuel is warm, it is thin enough.Discuss.-Steve

[Francesco 71]

I thought about it, too. Around here (or GTA) good luck finding any commercial establishment that will give (or even sell) you their WVO. There is a lot of, shall we say... Italian business... involved in WVO collection right now.Also, you absolutely must have very stringent processes in place, and aim for as complete conversion as possible; aim to exceed ASTM standards. Incomplete conversion doesn't just mean a few excess FFAs in your fuel, it also means too much methoxide, which can toast seals and hoses and fry your $12000 HP pump in short order. Done properly, with good methods and titration, it should be fairly easy to get good, consistent results that always exceed ASTM standards. If you think this project is right for you, I say "GO FOR IT!!!"

[booneylander 37]

Shouldn't be a problem, a number of members here seem to be using B100 with no problems. Changing the water seperator/filter more often would be good preventative maintenance and doing a really good job of prefiltering the biodiesel before you put it in the tank would be a good idea too (possibly with a centrifuge if you wanted to be super safe).

[steveyfrac 73]

I thought about it, too. Around here (or GTA) good luck finding any commercial establishment that will give (or even sell) you their WVO. There is a lot of, shall we say... Italian business... involved in WVO collection right now.Also, you absolutely must have very stringent processes in place, and aim for as complete conversion as possible; aim to exceed ASTM standards. Incomplete conversion doesn't just mean a few excess FFAs in your fuel, it also means too much methoxide, which can toast seals and hoses and fry your $12000 HP pump in short order. Done properly, with good methods and titration, it should be fairly easy to get good, consistent results that always exceed ASTM standards. If you think this project is right for you, I say "GO FOR IT!!!"

From my research, Methoxide, soap, any remaining lye, etc, can all be washed out if done properly. Perhaps i should look at obtaining a source of oil first then?

[steveyfrac 73]

Shouldn't be a problem, a number of members here seem to be using B100 with no problems. Changing the water seperator/filter more often would be good preventative maintenance and doing a really good job of prefiltering the biodiesel before you put it in the tank would be a good idea too (possibly with a centrifuge if you wanted to be super safe).

I believe it is possible to obtain a 10 micron bag filter that isn't too expensive. This filter is, i believe, finer then the stock fuel filter in the car.

[Fred J 0]

If you had a toothache, would you drill and fill your own tooth? Some things are best left to the professionals. In this case Commercial producers with the facilities, lab support and quality control.

[steveyfrac 73]

If you had a toothache, would you drill and fill your own tooth? Some things are best left to the professionals. In this case Commercial producers with the facilities, lab support and quality control.

I find there to be very little correlation between filling a cavity, and making your own biodiesel.Using your argument, i would not have changed my own oil, put air in my tires, changed my transmission fluid, etc.I don't doubt the ability of the commercial producers to likely produce higher quality fuel then i will, and do it more consistently. My point is more, does it matter? I believe there are vehicles, including one on these forums that run on straight vegetable oil, and the original engine was designed to run on peanut oil. Petro-diesel was only used because it was cheaper, not because it was better. With that in mind, do you have any specific points to bring about, or just the general impression that it is not a good idea?

[Francesco 71]

As I said: titrate, filter, titrate, dry, titrate, mix, process, settle, wash, settle, wash, settle, wash, settle, filter, test. Yes, washing can remove some impurities, but not all. Even with poor conversion (which is inevitably caused by either the lowest quality source WVO, or by poor titration or processing), stringent washing and drying may yield decent biodiesel. Yes, Diesel's original compression-ignition engine ran on peanut oil, but that machine was a far cry from the high-tech common-rail direct-injected engines in today's cars. The rail pressure may exceed 30,000 psi. You sure you want to introduce a fuel that's just "good enough"?

[Guest kwaldron]

Assuming you intend to pay the excise and other taxes due on such self-produced fuel (the fines being rather prohibitive) is it still economically viable to create your own? At what cost of WVO? You will likely have to compete with other WVO purchasers potentially bent on doing the same thing (no matter what nationality).

[steveyfrac 73]

As I said: titrate, filter, titrate, dry, titrate, mix, process, settle, wash, settle, wash, settle, wash, settle, filter, test. Yes, washing can remove some impurities, but not all. Even with poor conversion (which is inevitably caused by either the lowest quality source WVO, or by poor titration or processing), stringent washing and drying may yield decent biodiesel. Yes, Diesel's original compression-ignition engine ran on peanut oil, but that machine was a far cry from the high-tech common-rail direct-injected engines in today's cars. The rail pressure may exceed 30,000 psi. You sure you want to introduce a fuel that's just "good enough"?

I would try to produce the highest possible quality fuel that i had the ability to produce, and i would not feel as though i needed to rush through a batch, and not allow it to mix long enough, or not allow it to settle long enough etc. Many homebrew operations have shown the ability to produce ASTM grade fuel or beyond with careful processing. But it is a fact of life more or less, that there will probably be some unconverted oil in the form on triglycerides remaining. Will this oil harm the fuel system? It will still burn.Also, i wouldn't dream of putting anything in the car, that wasn't washed to the point of being excessive, i've even seen an automated wash system that constantly trickles new water in, and drains old water out. Turn that on, let it run all day. Check the results the next day. If it's not crystal clear, do it again. (i am on a well, in a low lying area, so water is cheap).

[steveyfrac 73]

Assuming you intend to pay the excise and other taxes due on such self-produced fuel (the fines being rather prohibitive) is it still economically viable to create your own? At what cost of WVO? You will likely have to compete with other WVO purchasers potentially bent on doing the same thing (no matter what nationality).

Self produced fuel is i believe exempt from PST and GST, unless i try to sell it to someone else.From http://www.canadacleanfuels.com/biodiesel.html:Ontario has already exempted biodiesel from the 14.3 cents per litre provincial tax and the federal government has exempted biodiesel from the 4.0 cents per litre federal excise taxSo, essentially, Biodiesel does not pay taxes in ontario. I would pay tax on the Methanol that i purchased, as well as the Lye, and any equipment.I'm assuming I can obtain WVO cheaply, at 10 cent/ L or less. Hopefully free, but i doubt that will happen. My main cost, i am assuming, will be the methanol, which i am expecting will set my total cost per litre, not including start up costs, at around 30 cents per litre. It would become substantially cheaper if i could recover methanol, instead of washing it out. To do this however, would require that i dry the oil before use.

[bilgladstone 13]

Store-bought ASTM biodiesel, certified as automobile fuel, carries insurance just in case your car goes goofy from his fuel. My previous supplier, for example, had $15,000 coverage for me. That'd buy a new engine, or even another smart car!

[steveyfrac 73]

Store-bought ASTM biodiesel, certified as automobile fuel, carries insurance just in case your car goes goofy from his fuel. My previous supplier, for example, had $15,000 coverage for me. That'd buy a new engine, or even another smart car!

I was unaware of this. I shall have to inquire as to if my supplier has such a policy. I believe worst case scenario with running a bad batch of fuel, is that i ruin a pump, or an injector, which would run around $1500 ish for a new one. But with the amount of driving i do, i would save that much in 7 months of driving.. ish. (a savings of about $200 / month) or one warm season.So, basically, even chewing through a pump a year, i'm still breaking even, and i honestly don't expect that it will be that terrible for it. Even ASTM fuel is still allowed to have a small level of unbound glycerides in it, so it can't be THAT terrible for the engine.

[smart65 28]

Trucktown pumps B20 through the winter, so you could use their biodiesel then, instead of reverting to straight dino. If you go through so much fuel, maybe you could open an account at Trucktown. That might come with a preferred rate that may make it preferable to the complications you are considering. Any chance of seeing you in Burlington on Wednesday evening?

[Guest kwaldron]

So is B100 Biodiesel at least 18 cents a litre cheaper than regular. If as you suggest WVO can be had for 10 cents per liltre that is the equivalent of $17 per barrel. And since the cost to produce is also less (no cracking plant, minimal energy investment, small chemical investment and a secondary saleable product as a result) one could expect even lower prices. Or are the dealers taking an opportunity to gouge us for the privilege of being eco-friendly?

[lebikerboy 96]

The analogy of fixing your own tooth maybe a little extreme comparing it to changing your own oil. However, did you refine the oil you used for the change yourself? This would be a closer analogy.Leave it to a manufacturer who's making bio to current ASTM standards...

Edited September 9, 2008 by lebikerboy

[bilgladstone 13]

Or are the dealers taking an opportunity to gouge us for the privilege of being eco-friendly?

Yes, of course... My local Autogas station sells B40 for one penny less than their dino-diesel. But 40% of the total volume sold has no tax on it!

The station guy tells me he only gets a handful of his many diesel customers in a week who don't use bio~ now.

[Francesco 71]

So is B100 Biodiesel at least 18 cents a litre cheaper than regular. If as you suggest WVO can be had for 10 cents per liltre that is the equivalent of $17 per barrel. And since the cost to produce is also less (no cracking plant, minimal energy investment, small chemical investment and a secondary saleable product as a result) one could expect even lower prices. Or are the dealers taking an opportunity to gouge us for the privilege of being eco-friendly?

My B100 supplier tells me it's a LOT more than 18¢ a litre. As I said, the WVO collection business is very closely tied to the sanitation business. Try to muscle in, you'll get muscled out in a hurry. Because of all the green initiatives, the WVO collection companies realize they are now sitting on the new "black gold" so they are charging for it. My supplier has already had to raise prices from $1.25 a litre to $1.36 because of extortion from WVO suppliers.

[steveyfrac 73]

My B100 supplier tells me it's a LOT more than 18¢ a litre. As I said, the WVO collection business is very closely tied to the sanitation business. Try to muscle in, you'll get muscled out in a hurry. Because of all the green initiatives, the WVO collection companies realize they are now sitting on the new "black gold" so they are charging for it. My supplier has already had to raise prices from $1.25 a litre to $1.36 because of extortion from WVO suppliers.

The Value of WVO is probably higher, however, right now, many restaurants are still paying a company for grease disposal. All i need is one restaurant that will let me pay for their WVO at low rates, and make sure i am able to do everything that they would do.

[MikeT 744]

So basically the Hells Angels and Rock Machine control the WVO racket, then?

[steveyfrac 73]

So basically the Hells Angels and Rock Machine control the WVO racket, then?

Kek,I'll make sure i don't try to make any pickups if i see any people that i would be comfortable calling 'bubba'.

[Francesco 71]

Kek?

[Francesco 71]

I'm absolutely sure you'll find places that'll let you take it off their hands for free even. The trick is doing the legwork to get out there and find them. Then there's the costs and hassles of lugging messy used fry grease -- you won't want to do that with your smart.

[steveyfrac 73]

Kek?

Ooops.. that's my geekiness coming out.How do I explain this.uhm. well. uhm. 'Kek' is how the World of Warcraft translates 'lol' from orcish to human.

[steveyfrac 73]

I'm absolutely sure you'll find places that'll let you take it off their hands for free even. The trick is doing the legwork to get out there and find them. Then there's the costs and hassles of lugging messy used fry grease -- you won't want to do that with your smart.

I've thought about making a trailer out of a steel 45 Gallon drum. Or i'm sure i could borrow one of the numerous pickups around here for a run into town.