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deezle

Production Volt

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wanna see how it plugs in??

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_27007.aspx

and heres a link to the 2011, $40,000 u.s. volt, with hopes that the second generation will have all the bugs worked out !! ah g.m., killing it off before its even here...

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTV...=TorontoNewHome

Edited by Steve C.

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They had a fairly extensive blurb about the Volt on City News at 11 last night. Which concluded with "...GM hopes to offer the Volt for $30K but some people in the industry say that may climb to as high as $50K by the time the car is realeased..."LOL

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They had a fairly extensive blurb about the Volt on City News at 11 last night. Which concluded with "...GM hopes to offer the Volt for $30K but some people in the industry say that may climb to as high as $50K by the time the car is realeased..."LOL

The long and short of it is that at this present time, battery technology is not at a point where batteries are economically feasible for use as a main traction source. All of my personal research points to that. Batteries are all together too big, to heavy, to expensive, and don't last long enough. Lithium Ion solve the heavy somewhat, solve the bulky somewhat, At the expense of cost. Lithium Ion batteries cost around $600 per kw/hr, And to achieve reasonable cycle life, such as the volt is doing, you discharge them from 80% to 30%, meaning the cost for a useable amount of energy is around $1200 kw/hr. To put that in perspective, that amount of power off the grid costs around $.10 ish in ontario. And no one really knows how well a lithium ion battery is going to hold up in long term traction battery use in a mass production setting. A Lithium-ion battery decreases in capacity by about 10% each year from when they are manufactured. So, that Volt that sat on the lot for a year can only go 36 miles now on a single charge. So far there are no known theoretical fixes for this even. Expect that a 6 or 7 year old Volt to have little battery capacity left. Resale values will go down the tubes. And unless something miraculous happens in battery technology in the mean time, Rejuvenating that battery pack is going to cost you $40k. in a used car worth $10k. I just can't see people doing that.Toyota did it right. Their prius uses a Nickel-Metal hydride battery that stay near the optimal discharge level at all times. Expect that battery pack to last for years and years of dependable service.

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Nine years later, folks driving the very first RAV4 EVs (NiMH, too) still get 80 to 120 miles on a charge.

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Incidentally, GM showed the production version of their new "world car" the Chevrolet Cruze at Paris this week. It, too, is based on the new Delta II platform that will underpin the Volt and other future models. It is to be released in Europe in the next couple of months and North America at the end of next year as a 2010 model. It is set to replace the awful Cobalt. The exterior looks very derivative and rather bland, but again, like Honda, Toyota and VW, not in a bad way. The interior is the best-looking on a small GM car in a long time. If they've put any effort into ergonomics -- which is a foreign concept at GM -- and if they can give it real ride and handling, this could be the winner GM needs. This could be GM's K-Car.

Posted Image

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Incidentally, GM showed the production version of their new "world car" the Chevrolet Cruze at Paris this week. It, too, is based on the new Delta II platform that will underpin the Volt and other future models. It is to be released in Europe in the next couple of months and North America at the end of next year as a 2010 model. It is set to replace the awful Cobalt. The exterior looks very derivative and rather bland, but again, like Honda, Toyota and VW, not in a bad way. The interior is the best-looking on a small GM car in a long time. If they've put any effort into ergonomics -- which is a foreign concept at GM -- and if they can give it real ride and handling, this could be the winner GM needs. This could be GM's K-Car.

That actually dosen't look half bad. Shiny. I was excited about the volt. If they can get a decent battery pack to it that's gonna last, i'll get one to replace my echo in 4-5 years. But i don't want to be the guinnea pig.

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This could be GM's K-Car.

Not unless they put a GOOD fuel-efficient diesel in it or make it a competitively-priced hybrid. It's almost 2009, and the world has enough Camrys, Accords, Altimas, Sonatas ....They're still playing catch-up ---- but they need some real technological advances to get back into the game. I think they're toast with their current top management.

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Not unless they put a GOOD fuel-efficient diesel in it or make it a competitively-priced hybrid. It's almost 2009, and the world has enough Camrys, Accords, Altimas, Sonatas ....They're still playing catch-up ---- but they need some real technological advances to get back into the game. I think they're toast with their current top management.

Truth is, the smart diesel engine would be almost ideal for them. Small, light, efficient. Have it kick in at around 40% depth of discharge, and depending how spirited the vehicle is being driven, vary how hard, and at what RPM to drive it A continuous 20HP output would be enough to sustain anything but 150 km/hr on the 401 style driving. It'd pull 50 MPG on the highway with it's batteries discharged. The other cool thing to do would be to cover the whole thing in solar panels. Unlike batteries the solar panels are known to last 20 years unless they shatter. Expensive though.

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Not unless they put a GOOD fuel-efficient diesel in it or make it a competitively-priced hybrid. It's almost 2009, and the world has enough Camrys, Accords, Altimas, Sonatas ....

They're still playing catch-up ---- but they need some real technological advances to get back into the game. I think they're toast with their current top management.

That's just my point. It will be introduced in Europe in the next couple of months with a range of small, efficient engines that -- everywhere else but North America -- are sufficient to give a small car plenty of oomph. Europe will get a 1.6 FSI (110 hp), 1.8 FSI (138 hp) and a 2.0 cdi (138 hp, 236 lb-ft). Later in the year, the 1.4 TSI (140 hp, 160 lb-ft) will be available, and that is the one set for the NA launch. It's about time we get engines like that here.

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steveyfrac, I think you were referring to the Volt or possibly a future electric version of a Cruze---- the smart diesel would likely be all they would need to run a generator. But as Sameguy mentioned, for the soon-to-be-on-the-market Cruze a sensible engine for North America is crucial.

Edited by deezle

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steveyfrac, I think you were referring to the Volt or possibly a future electric version of a Cruze---- the smart diesel would likely be all they would need to run a generator. But as Sameguy mentioned, for the soon-to-be-on-the-market Cruze a sensible engine for North America is crucial.

Oops, yup, meant the volt not the cruise. I thought the pic was of the production Volt.

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No matter how you slice it In my opinion American Automakers, particularly the Big Three will never be the same. GM is on the precipice of failure without US Goverment intervention and the VOLT as published HERE is nothing more than an overpriced vehicle which the masses who need economy will not puirchase when other cheaper better alternatives are readily available.

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I wouldn't be surprised to see GM in Chapter 11 shortly, and the Volt cancelled.

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GM has shelved every development program except the Volt and the imminent Camaro. Pre-selling 6000 Camaros won't save them, and banking on the H2 SUT and the $50,000 Volt is just asking for the reaper to come and deal a final blow.

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The Volt is a really cool car. But high millage people will do better with a small diesel financially, and low millage people will do better with the Yaris' & Golf's. There will be a market for it, but it will be a niche market, especially till the battery is proven in real life, by real people.

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"Niche" is right.

As we've discussed, it is now the only new car in the development pipe at GM. It is smallish -- based on Delta II of the possibly still-born Cruze, it will sit between the Delta-based Cobalt and the Epsilon-based Malibu. It will be expensive -- analysts are saying $47000 US before incentives. It will offer middling FE for anybody using it for more than the initial (claimed) 65 Km electric range. And it will offer rather awful performance for a vehicle of that size, price and efficiency. The nail in this coffin is the ho-hum design.

I predict, if the Volt does see the light of day, that the only people snapping it up will be GM apologists.

Edited by SameGuy

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