Test Drove a Diesel AND a Gas.

[drewfuspx 0]

Well my wife and I finally got some time set aside and got out to test drive some smarts! We both had an opportunity to drive both models on the highway, up a good hill, and in town. Here's our feelings.450 vs. 451Transmission - Seemed to have simliar hesitation in both when using the paddle-shifters. Missed the sixth gear in the gas, but only because we got through the gears so much quicker.Engine Noise - This was actually quite noticeable to me and I found the gas to much quieter than the diesel.A/C - LOADS better in the 451, granted it was new and the other was old, but after feeling it in the new model I had no doubt that the tester we drove was one of those with a potential a/c problem.Fun Factor - This is a hard split. Hands down I had SO much fun driving the 451 around. The steering felt tight, it was relatively gutsy, gas and brake felt good, and it was no problem rippin' down the deerfoot and merging in and out of traffic. The 450 is fun to drive but didn't feel as confident moving in and out of traffic. However the 450 by far in my opinion has the funkier interior of the two and so is more fun in that respect.Gas Pedal Feel - This was something I really noticed in the diesel was that it felt like I had to put it to the floor to get anything out of it. Now, I believe that's because it's got a centrifugal clutch and so the engine has to be turning at a higher speed before it'll engage. But it really threw me for a loop. The gas however once it was in gear would start coasting forward no problems and so in some heavy traffic we hit I found I could move along quite nicely without touching the gas simply by shifting between 1st and 2nd gear.Space - Couldn't really notice much of a difference between the two, however love the 'trunk' that's built into the back door of the 451.Exterior styling - Their both smarts and so both look good IMHO.Roof - On the coupe' I enjoy the 451's screen vs. the 450's sliding plastic guard thingy. However I hear that in the 451 it's a little finicky... if someone were to come up with a power option for that I think that'd be tight!Seats - couldn't feel to much difference in comfort, except that the 451's are obviously designed to accommodate a more robust individual. Speaking of the seats I was stunned to learn that in neither model and you recline the passenger seat. (although seemed a little more adjustable in the 451) This seems like comfort 101 and as a past employee of Hyundai I know for a fact they've figured out how to create a seat that will both fold forward flat and recline and so I felt like MB should be able to have done it as well. (granted you can't recline THAT far before running your head into the back of the car)Those are the things that pop to mind, however we did all that before I went out and got the crap kicked out of me wakeboarding in b.c. for a week. So... it's not all fresh. But figured if there was anyone else who's looking between the two that might help.Our final Decision is that we'll be going with a newer gas model, unfortunately we'll have to wait till 2009's model to see what's happening with our bank accounts and missing out on the 2000 dollar eco rebate. But we just found it that it was much more enjoyable to drive b/c of the power despite the loss of MPG. We are convinced that a Smart will be our next vehicle, although we do have some concerns about how often we'll run into not having enough room... How often do you find you're needing another vehicle to handle loads to large for the smart?Some things I learned:1. That only black, white, and yellow are the plastic panels that are mono-color all the way through. The other colors like Blue are the metallic paint and so will scratch.2. That the silver tridion cell is the color of the metal and the black one is powder coated.3. They've pulled the RED interiorThe only downer in the entire experience was that the sales associate who helped me was great at first. But then kept talking... and talking... and talking. I've been in sales, and I know you can talk yourself out of a sale. He was also quite harsh at times. e.g. I said at one point that someone on the forums figured there must be a motion sensor that comes with the security package he replies 'your wrong, that's stupid' um... pardon???? 'it's a 20,000 dollar car we'd never put something like that in there' oh... o.k. Just was a real rough way to put it, he could have simply said 'oh... I think they may have been mistaken, from the spec's that I've got the security system has... - I just don't like rude people. I have talked to this guy twice, and both times I've gotten one of those 'your an idiot' type of responses. Now that being said EVERYTHING else this guy did was perfect. Had awesome knowledge, demonstrated the car in a spectacular way, and was able to show us what our options were this late in the year (those options being that there were 3 Passion Coupe's Left... all in silver and yellow.) So there it is my slightly disjointed review...

[-dk- 0]

Hey thanks for the driving notes.We are eagerly awaiting our smart to show up soon. It should be here in the next week or so. We didn't consider getting one of the diesels as they were so over priced when we started looking that it wasn't a consideration. There were people trying to sell them around here (Victoria BC) for 20k+ for models that weren't even fully loaded. I saw a few cabrios that were almost hitting 30k. To me it just wasn't worth the money especially since most of them had little to no warranty left. You did say the things that I suspected about the diesel though (not as responsive to the gas pedal) just based on the hp difference in the two. Oh and we are getting a yellow and silver passion

[Gent 1]

...I believe that's because it's got a centrifugal clutch and so the engine has to be turning at a higher speed before it'll engage...

Good review, but no - it's not a scooter, it has a standard clutch. It's just that it's a 40 HP diesel and takes a bit to get rolling.

[Fred J 0]

Thanks for your review and comparison.

Gas Pedal Feel - Now, I believe that's because it's got a centrifugal clutch......Some things I learned:2. That the silver tridion cell is the color of the metal and the black one is powder coated. Now that being said EVERYTHING else this guy did was perfect. Had awesome knowledge, .....

Wow! So did this salesman enlighten us that the Tridion is NOT powder coated and that only the black tridion is?Also that we have a centrifical clutch?

[Nextourer 1]

umm.... the red interior stays.. it's just redder to match the new red!

[drewfuspx 0]

Nope, that was me guessing as to why the hesitation with the diesel, not the salesman saying that it was a centrifugal clutch. GENT + FRED thanks for setting me straight on that. I was just making my best guess as to why the hesitation As far as the silver tridion he said that it was NOT powder coated and that's why he preferred it. Said that the black one was powdercoated and so would get little scuffs and the like... Nextourer, That's exciting that they are keeping a red interior. I was just meaning to say that they had discontinued it for the 2008 model. The sales associate said the red was the most popular interior and they ran out... :huh:Heh, well sorry for a few misleading items in their folks. But overall sounds like no one disagrees so far

[yellow bumble bee 3]

Hi AllI have owned a 2006 diesel Pulse Coupe for 2.75 years with 71,000 km that has been remapped. V65 by Fast Eddy. I have driven a 2008 gas Passion Coupe 3 times as a loaner. The longest time has been 1.5 weeks when I put 1200 km on the loaner. Just to let you know that I like my 2006 Pulse Coupe and the way it drives so maybe a little slanted view. Transmission: No matter how much MB talks about having improved the shifting, I found not much change in the jerkiness of the gear changes between the 2006 and the 2008. I did miss the 6th gear that is not on the 2008 at highway speed. I found the 2008's engine bussy at 100-110 km/h. They should have kept the old 6 speed.Like the shifter on the 2006 better than the 2008 NA shifter.Engine noise: The engine is noiser on the 2006. In my mind duh, it is a diesel. I don't mind the noise. From a noise point of view the 2006 sounds like a sports car when you wind it up, where the 2008 sounds like an ordinary car.A/C: The 2008 wins hands down. It is integrated into the heating system. My criterium for a good A/C system is to put the A/C on full and with the cold air coming through the dash vents. Then put your hands on the steering wheel so they get the full blast. If you have to remove your hands from the wheel within 2 minutes because they are freezing cold and you can not stand it, then you have a good A/C. My 2006 has never met my criterium on this and the 2008 just beat the time limit.Fun Factor: The 2006 with the remap does all the things he says the 2008 does but with the sports car sound. I agree with him without the remap the 2006 feels a little pushed above 110 km or going up a steep/long hill on the highway.Gas Pedal Feel: I like the low end toque on the 2006. I was surprised how "gutless" the 2008 is. I can remember trying to pass a semi on a flat piece of road. I stomped on the gas, the car shifted down 2 gears, may a lot of noise but did not move very fast. My liking the 2006 over the 2008 is probably due to my remap. I am use to not having a coast feature on my 2006 and did not like the coast feature on the 2008. It seemed to roll too fast.Space: I didn't carry too much in the 2008 so didn't use the space. Find the 2006's space adequate for two people travelling. Exterior: Did not notice the differences between the styling on the outside. Liked the idea of the a bigger opening to help service things at the front. Don't know why MB only goes half way with some things. Should have a proper opening hood with hinges and a latch.Service Interval: Really like the service interval on the 2008. On the 2006, there are too many things to check too often at too high a price. I realize that the 2006 is a diesel and the oil and filter should be changed twice as often as the 2008, but everything else should not have to checked 2-3 times as often. (One of my biggest pet peeves with the 2006)Roof: I like the screen better on the 2008, but why make it so flimsy. It is going to pushed and pulled back and forth with force so should be built to stand the stress.Seats: Yes, I agree here that the passenger seat should fold back so the passenger can be comfortable or have a snooze. The 2008 seat is easier to fold forward. So the 2008 wins here. On the 2006 you need 3 hands to unlatch the seat to put it in the forward position but I was only given two. May the designer of 2006 seat when he spends eternity in hell have to unlatch the passenger seat and put it in a forward position forever. In Conclusion: If I had never gotten use to driving the 2006 and were driving both for the first time, I would always pick the 2008. It is a more "normal" car. But I have learned to drive the 2006. With the remap it will make it up the Coke, it will pass the semi, it sounds like a sports car (but doesn't speed like one LOL) and all at 4.17L/100 Km. I would never buy a gas smart.My 2 centsRoy

Edited September 10, 2008 by yellow bumble bee

[MikeT 744]

The silver car is powder coated and clearcoated; the black tridion is not clearcoated and its coloured powder coat is thicker.Diesel all the way for me, until or unless the gas turbo with either 84 or 98 HP is sold here. The 70 HP engine seems more like a 55 HP engine to me, and it needs to be wound up to accelerate with any speed. The cabrio's engine noise is considerably lower than the coupé.

[drewfuspx 0]

Ahh, good to know about the silver tridion. I used to be a big fan of the black on black... but I've been seeing some Blue on Silver that I really like lately!The 451 we drove was a Cabrio and it was an extremely windy day. We really noticed the wind noise coming from the convertable top. I live in lethbridge so wind is a part of life here, I think we'd go for a coupe' hands down.

[Gent 1]

...I like the low end toque...

HEHEHEHEHEE. low-end toque. How Canadian, eh?

[yellow bumble bee 3]

Hi GentGlad I made someone smile. Guess I need to find the spell checker on this site. IMHO the 450 and the 451 are two very different cars, so hard to do a fair comparison. After having a remap and installing cruise control the 450 is a different car again. Roy

[-dk- 0]

We are likely going to get our 451 remapped soon after we buy it. It will be interesting to see how that changes the feel of the car.

[MikeT 744]

Unfortunately, remapping the NA gas engine will not result in the type of gains that are seen in the turbocharged diesel. In that case, 60+% increases to power are possible, but with a NA gas engine, perhaps 10 or 15% would be considered a "good" gain.

[Awesys 4]

Roof - On the coupe' I enjoy the 451's screen vs. the 450's sliding plastic guard thingy. However I hear that in the 451 it's a little finicky... if someone were to come up with a power option for that I think that'd be tight!

I wish they still offered the power sunroof on the new models!

[-dk- 0]

Unfortunately, remapping the NA gas engine will not result in the type of gains that are seen in the turbocharged diesel. In that case, 60+% increases to power are possible, but with a NA gas engine, perhaps 10 or 15% would be considered a "good" gain.

The HP increase isn't the only reason that we are looking at the remap though. We are hoping that the remap will reduce the lag in shifting and also help with the, imo, overly long powerband of 1st.

[SheepRock 0]

The HP increase isn't the only reason that we are looking at the remap though. We are hoping that the remap will reduce the lag in shifting and also help with the, imo, overly long powerband of 1st.

What do you mean exactly when you talk about remaping?

[MikeT 744]

Remapping = changing the fueling curve for the engine possibly with ignition timing changes too; more fuel in could mean more power and torque, though in a gas naturally aspirated engine you would normally need a different cam or cams to get more air into and out of the combustion chamber to realise a significant gain. With a turbocharged engine, if you can adjust the boost especially, the cam timing and lift issue is minimised and larger power and torque gains are available from a remap.The clutch engagement protocol can also be adjusted during a remap, which could mean faster shifting, at the expense of some additional shift harshness and potentially faster drivetrain wear. Especially of concern is the rating of the clutch, which in the smart cdi 450 at least is 110 Nm, which is lower than the 140 Nm that some remappers offer (stock torque is 100 Nm).

Edited September 15, 2008 by Mike T

[flyinglow 0]

In Response to the topic of GAS vs DIESEL: (and this is more technical)The best analogy I can make is that a Gas engine is a Quarterhorse, fast on the take off, but needs the RPM for the oomph. to keep going. A diesel is a Clydesdale, not that fast on the take off, but you can workem all day and for the same RPM they have far more ooomph than a gas engine. The European smart can be had with a 700cc engine and that one just touches the same torque as the diesel. (82 HP@3300rpm vs 41HP@2300rpm) Think of trucks, locomotives etc, all Diesels. Also, for bang for the buck in a diesel one gets 40 cents worth at the rear wheels vs only 25 cents for a gas engine. And to boot, there are more calories in a liter of Diesel fuel than in a liter of gasoline.

[MikeT 744]

Please clarify: I am not sure which engine you are referring to as having 82 HP @ 3300 RPM, but possibly the 999 cc gas engine (HP peak is closer to 5500). The peak HP in the diesel is achieved at 4200 RPM, and nearly at 3000 too.

[denisjolicoeur 0]

.... though in a gas naturally aspirated engine you would normally need a different cam or cams to get more air into and out of the combustion chamber to realise a significant gain. ....

I believe the 1L engine has variable valve timing and variable valve lift, all computer controlled.

I may be wrong but from my understanding that means it's just like having a "variable-computer-controlled-cam". So, a remap can adjust these settings and make quite a difference for both fuel economy and/or power, just as an old school cam swap would've done for a 350 small block. Sure, not as much as in the turbo-diesel but still much more than any other engine without vvt/vvl (or whatever the acronyms may be).

Edited September 15, 2008 by denisjolicoeur

[-dk- 0]

Thanks for the info here guys and story for hi-jacking this thread... I still haven't heard back from eddy after almost a week... is thtat normal?

[MikeT 744]

I believe the 1L engine has variable valve timing and variable valve lift, all computer controlled.

Yes, but I would bet money that the cams' variable timing is not electronically controlled, but is instead mechanically controlled. Hence my comment still applies.

[sbungay 0]

The gas smart is ok, much quicker than my diesel, but I'll take my 40hp and 3.8-4.2l/100Km over the gas engine, and I like the interror of my 450 far better than the 1970's Hershy-bar styling of the 451's interror. Sorry, I just don't like the 451, it's big, it lost it's funky interror, it is gasoline-only in North America, it has a dumbbed-down shifter, the sunshade rubs the top of my head, and the seats look like they came out of my old 1976 Pinto (which is not really a bad-thing since those were pretty comfy seats). There will not be a new smart in my future unless the diesel is once again made available, and I'm told that the Penske Group is basically controlling what we get here in Canada and that the diesel is not in the cards.