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MikeT

My 404 Coupé Injection

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One of the hoses I hadn't managed to get a good replacement for up to today has finally been found - at Serie04. This is the one that connects the Hydrovac (brake booster) slave cylinder to the brake piping. An exact match, Made in France.

Hydrovac Hose.jpeg

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The Architects Garage did this one for me - my car as it might have looked in front of the Pininfarina factory in Torino in 1966.

Screen Shot 2021-04-24 at 11.50.06 AM.png

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The new master cylinder is installed along with the glass fluid reservoir I found yesterday. The brake line that takes fluid from the Hydrovac booster to the wheels is now connected to its hose (the new one I got last week) and it's bolted to the firewall.

Master cylinder and output line installed.jpeg

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Today I had some time to test clean the spare set of injector lines with Muriatic Acid to see if it's get more residue out. Boy did it ever! So I pumped about 100 mL of Muriatic Acid through each line of the pipes that had been on the engine with a large syringe, pulsing it back and forth. After the acid flush, they were purged with water, then acid flushed again, and again, until the solution coming out was not orange (rust) anymore. The water purges were at high pressure and that dislodged more particulates and fuel sludge which you can see in the green tray.
 
Following the acid/water purges, the lines were flushed first with WD40 to try and displace any remaining water - each line was done about 6 times until it ran clear. Then I used a syringe to punch about 70 mL of STP concentrated injection system cleaner through each line, letting it stay in there for a while. The final rinse was with MolySlip Combat spray. The lines inside, which previously - near the ends, and no doubt in between too - had visible black corrosion residue, are all clean now and a scriber inside will not find any loose stuff. The spare lines were also quickly cleaned.
 
Then I removed and cleaned the ends of the injectors and delivery valves that had been connected before to the injector lines (pre-final cleaning) and then reassembled it all. I also changed the steel clamp that holds the two lines for cylinders 1 and 2 (nearest firewall) to the intake plenum for an aluminum one I made, because the alignment was slightly off for the steel ones and it could have chewed into the line to injector 2 over time. The aluminum clamp I made is gently shaped and will cause no problems like that....
 
Finally, I got some rubber tubing for the radiator overflow and also derusted the two tiny steel clamps that hold the tube to the radiator. Then I painted them and installed the tubing.
 
So in terms of visible progress it was minimal but I am much more confident about the cleanliness of the injector lines now!Injector Lines mounted.jpegRad overflow.jpeg
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Photo of the flush and residue in the tube

Screen Shot 2021-05-08 at 9.20.27 PM.png

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With a few spare minutes left in a busy day I installed the radiator and connect the thermo-switch for the fan....and of course, installed the engine fan too.Radiator in.jpeg

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The 404 of my car's age has a funky-ass braking system: 280 mm diameter finned drums on the front wheels with over/under front shoes pushed by 4 pistons (1 on each end of each shoe so the front brakes have no self-servo effect) and 10 inch conventional rear drums.  To make up for the unusual front drums, there is a Hydrovac brake booster, which has a 7:1 assistance ratio (old school Mastervac is usually around 3:1) and because the displacements of brake applications are large, there is also a 5 litre external vacuum tank to supplement the vacuum in the Hydrovac unit itself.

 

Mine was bought NOS in 1993 and was installed in the car around 1998 and so it was in there with fluid for 18 years.  It may, in other words, need to be rebuilt.  However, in the interests of "wanting to know", I've installed it and I will determine how it is on a road test.  Meanwhile, my esteemed US colleague in Le Club 404, Todd Langton, has a 3.5 year old rebuilt unit ready in case I need it....

 

So the engine compartment looks like this (except there's a battery and the wiper motor is installed!), so it's pretty much time to reinstall the hood.

 

The remaining work:

  1. get the new lower rad hose as well as the new 75°C I ordered from Germany in mid-April.  I have a very good used lower hose and several old thermostats but I'd rather put a new one in
  2. all the fluids (gearbox, injection pump sump oil, brake fluid, coolant, engine oil, windshield washer fluid, ~20L of 94 octane no ethanol gas)
  3. verification of valve clearances (engine builder did it but I'll "trust, but verify")
  4. use the factory fuel injection tool kit to check the 5 main settings of the throttle body, etc.
  5. buy a new battery, check the electrics
  6. spin her up with plugs out to spread the oil around
  7. then try to start.

 

You can get an idea of the weird brake plumbing from this photo:Braking system 1.jpeg

 

It's looking mostly like a normal 404KF2 now

Engine with braking system in.jpeg

 

Vacuum tank above, Hydrovac below, from the (future) location of the battery. 

Hydrovac and vacuum tank.jpeg

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2 speed wiper motor installed - which does not leave a lot of room for draining new oil into the oil filler tube, hence the giraffe-style funnel.  Another advantage is the screen in the oil filler tube on the engine is not overwhelmed by the rate of drainage from the funnel so it's a "fill and forget" situation.

 

The accelerator cable on the fuel injected 404 has a brutally difficult-to-access fixing bolt.  Nothing that about an hour of pain would not rectify, mind you.Wiper motor installed.jpegThrottle Body Cable.jpegOil funnel.jpeg

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I finally got around to riveting the aluminium rear plate holder onto the steel mount tonight.  The black paint and finish of the centre of the holder was a bit sketchy so I decided to put the "404 COUPE" plate I had made up in France back in 1984 back on.  But this time I drilled it through so the BC plate can go on top.  I have two more (really!) - one front and one rear. This plate holder is not really suitable for Canadian plates but it's what the car came with.  So....

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Normally, the plate holder is riveted in 4 spots but it turns out that the rivets have the same spacing as the slots in a BC plate so I only riveted the top two on and the lower two will have thin bolts through the plate, the plate holder and steel mount.  Previously when this car had a plate, I drilled holes in the extreme left and right sides, which was kind of gross.

 

On the lubricants / liquids side, I bought 2 litres of Lucas 20W50 racing oil for the gearbox (original 1960s recommendation was for Esso Extra Motor Oil 20W/30/40 - pre-multigrade days).  I also bought 1 litre of Motul DOT 5.1 brake fluid.  For the injection pump, I had been intending to use motor oil in it but the original recommendation was to use Esso Oleofluid 40 EP or Esso Univis 40.  The latter changes up today to ExxonMobil Univis N22.  Now, this is a hydraulic fluid and only available in relatively large quantities.  I can get a 19 litre pail for about $100 CAD.  The thing is, the pump only takes 400 mL at a time.  I would change it once a year, way more than recommended but still.  Anyway I think I'll get the pail and share my supply with a buddy 90 km south of here who has more or less the same car.

 

Still waiting for my vacuum brake bleeder to arrive and the lower rad hose.....

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Two purchases today: A huge pail of Mobil Univis N22 which is the correct lubricant for the injection pump but not available - even in Europe - in smaller quantities, and a new battery cable.  The 1966 battery cable is the crusty one with green corrosion all over it.  I re-used the rubber insulator from 1966 on the modern Pico cabe.

 

I'll be sharing the oil with other Peugeot 404 Injection, 504 Injection and BMW 2002 tii owners because these injection pumps all use this lube (many put engine oil in but it's wrong - this Univis is extremely fluid) but I expect I'll have this for a long long time as the pump only takes 400 mL per fill and the change interval is once a year, maximum!

battery cables.jpegUnivis N22.jpeg

Edited by MikeT
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Today was one for doing the first three of five Injection pump settings using the Peugeot-Fenwick factory tool kit.

Step 1: Not a great view, but the tool you see sticking up by Cylinder 4 has a hook on the other end that sticks into the richness lever and locks into a slot on the throttle body:

1757696648_KFInjectionPumpLeverSpecialTool.thumb.jpeg.220cfa053c5e332d5b7b236ccc5913fd.jpeg

Step 2: The first pre-adjustment is to the clearance between the throttle body and the throttle body drum: 1 mm (adjusted by a 5 mm Allen key as you can see) with a special tool inserted into the throttle body and the tool shown above in Step 1 still in place:

1076256054_KFAdjustmentI-ClearancetoThrottleDrum1mm.thumb.jpeg.acf503f32edace0443039a740303226f.jpeg

Step 3: In this step - Adjustment I (the precursor to Adjustments II and III of course!) with the injection pump richness lever locked in position and the throttle butterfly also locked in place, the two bolts (with jagged lockwashers) holding the thin metal "sector" plate to the throttle drum are slackened and it's moved until the forward flat mark lines up with the boss on the throttle body, then the bolts are tightened down again.

630035333_KFThrottleSector.thumb.jpeg.580f8ae75fc269f8192f8ed689220fc1.jpeg

Step 4: Another view of the special tool that locks the injection pump richness lever into a slot on the pump body while the throttle position is set by another tool:

1323241148_KFSettingThrottleSector.thumb.jpeg.dbb2b64926be6b7d8bb4b9bdcfc3403e.jpeg

 

Step 5: Inside the throttle body is the tool that holds the throttle plate in a set position relative to the injection pump, which also has a special tool in it (the top of which is visible at the bottom of the photo). This essentially registers the throttle body position with that of the injection pump:

1559201733_KFSpecialtools.thumb.jpeg.d4af4c1b7c41e52c8d6bcc9641aa0dc3.jpeg

Step 6: Adjustment II: this is the maximum throttle opening (you can see the vertical throttle plate in the photo), and it's set by lining up the notch on the thin metal plate that's bolted to the throttle drum with the jagged lockwasher with the front face of the boss on the throttle body. The adjustment is achieved by rotating the screw whose threading you can see just above the cable.

1515485753_KFAdjustmentII-Maximum.thumb.jpeg.40e9330f650fa6ac4daabca959e334d1.jpeg

Step 7: Final check (Adjustment III): Minimum throttle opening. Here the higher notch on the thin plate bolted to the throttle drum must line up with the flat boss on the throttle body. Lower centre right of the photo. You adjust it by adjusting the minimum throttle stop screw. Once the engine's running, the adjustment can range between where it is in this photo (12°) and the lower notch to the left (10°).

1882398542_KFadjustmentIII-Minimum.thumb.jpeg.37ecabb259d8f3de719d13d5220c066a.jpeg

Step 8: put air filter etc back on.  Battery cables are ready to be connected:

1285374037_KFAdjustmentsAllDone.thumb.jpeg.aacc848f67263cef6dc302c962611481.jpeg

The last two adjustments of the injection system are done with the engine running - basically, the thermostatic richness lever on the intake manifold is set at 60°C by adjusting a screw (more special tools!) and also adjusting the supplementary air valve at the same time.

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I forgot to post these two...

 

This is the stop for the thermostatic enrichment lever.  It's a bolt which normally has a single split washer, but in new cars it had an additional 0.5 mm flat washer for the running-in period of 1000 miles.  For rebuilt engines too, it is to be installed and then taken out.  The funny thing is that of the 4 injection pumps I have, two didn't have this additional washer and two did.  The two that didn't were on my car and the one from the 404 KF2 Injection sedan I used to run in the eighties.  The two spare pumps were from cars that lived their entire lives running too rich a mixture because whomever serviced them didn't read the workshop manual! 

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This threaded hole is where the stopping bolt goes.  This is a spare injection pump, and I'm holding the richness lever up.

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Tuesday I filled as best I could the braking system with fluid.  My Rock Auto hand pump vacuum bleeder was not so hot so I ended up getting my wife to pump the pedal (new master cylinder so no problem) and got fluid into most of the system.  The pedal's still super soft though so either the Hydrovac is super toasted inside or there is just a lot of additional air in there.  These systems are notoriously hard to bleed so I tend to think it just needs a bit more bleeding.  The assistance ratio is 7:1 so the slave cylinder on the servo has a huge displacement compared to the master....a very powerful vacuum might do the trick.  Will try again, possibly with the engine running, to get the slave cylinder to do its large displacement. The system was totally dry of course. 

 

The Peugeot 404 workshop manual says to set the ARC50 purge machine at 31.2 PSI, and the hand pump manufacturer recommends 10 PSI, never more than 20....I suppose that's the issue, haha!

 

Made this cool bib for the master cylinder to catch spilled fluid, with a rag underneath.1040727533_brakefluidbib.thumb.jpeg.cb9f5e889e6456db51b2be5ead42b65a.jpeg

 

...and then today these arrived after more than a month from Germany:

 

1215765035_lowerradiatorhoses.thumb.jpeg.91a4c092dc804ef43df9b447062d1e45.jpeg

 

Two new lower radiator hoses and a new Calorstat thermostat set at 75°C.  So I installed the lower hose, put the thermostat in and filled the coolant.  For that I used the long life stuff used in Mercedes, pre-mixed.  The system took about 6.5 litres so there's another 1.3 litres to go.

 

In theory I could attempt a start anytime, but I think I'll double-check the valve clearances and re-check the distributor positioning against Cylinder 4 compression TDC first.  That should not take too long.  Then I'll put a battery in and check the electrical system.

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I need a break from this project.  The coolant has been in for a few days and there were some puddles on the ground.  Thought it was from a little bleeding I did.  Maybe....

2138474207_HeadGasketDrip.thumb.jpeg.5aaaffca1b5c8ff757dc29571d6f03c4.jpeg

...but it's ALSO dripping from the head/block junction.  The engine builder used a NOS bi-metallic gasket rather than the Reinz type I asked him to.  This is the result.  Head has to come off because who knows where else it's leaking.  Project is set back a couple of months at least, I think.  

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The head should come off this weekend.  Will work on the brakes too...

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Today I whipped the head off, but not before spot-checking the torque applied to the head bolts by Anderson Precision engines.  They were about 50 lbs-ft, which is just a bit light - should have been 54 with the metal clad gasket. With the Reinz or Curty gasket, the torque is 60 lbs-ft.

When using the type of gasket that the long block builder did, the metal surfaces of the gasket is supposed to be coated with boiled linseed oil.  He used some sort of Varsol soluble red spray.  Maybe that was the issue?? I somehow doubt it.

I could not see any obvious reason for the coolant drip, presuming the head surface is flat.  There is no reason it should not be.  Liner protrusion of 3 of the 4 cylinders was fairly perceptible but in 404 engines with the rubber seals, they often pop up a bit with the head off and this is a non-adjustable thing (the one protruding less likely was tighter in the block).

The red spray on the piston crowns is gross and to me shows a lack of attention (why not put paper towelling inside to protect them??) and I cleaned it off of course.  Super sticky junk.

I'll be eventually using the Reinz or Curty gasket, leaning towards the Reinz, which is Peugeot OE and should seal well (as should the Curty).  The Curty says it's pre-treated with stuff to make it adhere to the head and block, and to not use any spray or other treatment.  I assume the Reinz is the same.804756190_Block1.thumb.jpeg.49b535357b47be88453b43e954d6b48d.jpeg1932686695_Block2.thumb.jpeg.e0d80eb15b3c99c5571e0b9948fccc77.jpeg1860539448_Dripareacloseup.thumb.jpeg.f8ace55ff591283ea2337250aa4e9a2c.jpeg1770369185_Headoff1.thumb.jpeg.b84e930bacc4394762dc5979434d1461.jpeg1558569837_Headoff2.thumb.jpeg.f3d422086c946ff3e3d5006b7f8d54f0.jpeg699830676_Headoff3.thumb.jpeg.7285bb1b95449a51d31ea932d87445de.jpeg1826466086_ReinzCurty.thumb.jpeg.da231fb845e35f90a56b0c133d0a53f3.jpeg

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Placing the mating surface of the NOS head that I just took off the engine and the original, there is a diagonal warp in one or both of them.  My money is on the NOS one being warped, hence the leak.  The old head did not leak coolant when it was on the engine prior to its disassembly.  I informed the machine shop of this yesterday evening....

 

The machine shop has contacted me just now and asked me to bring the head(s) down to them for checking, the shop indicated that their records showed that it was not checked for trueness because it was NOS. So we should have a reasonable solution sometime soon.

In the event the NOS head is too warped to rectify (up to 1 mm can come off before compression ratio starts getting too high) then the old head will have to be redone with new guides and seats. I'll bring both down there soon.

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I took both cylinder heads to the workshop this afternoon and - surprise - the new head is perfectly flat.  The rocking was caused by the original head. The old head is slightly crooked though Evan said it's not what he'd call "warped" but could use a skim.
 
He offered to fine-tune the surface on the new head at no charge to give the best possible chance for a good seal with the Reinz. I think I'll put the head back on after she's back....
 
And eventually have the original redone with new guides and seats and store it as a spare.
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Hmmmm.......many signs that should make you reconsider if this shop is worth using....IMHO.   As you have said, simple things a good shop should have not done and also any shop worth their weight would have spec'd the head for straightness, even just to protect their own rear-end in case of any future issues ....makes me wonder what else they didn't or did do to skip corners..?   Sad to say.  With all the money you are spending on this resto, and the fact it's rarity ....you should be getting top notch service....but that's just me.

 

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Agree with you Willys but the shop came highly recommended from Coachwerks in Victoria, who get all their machining done there.  They're 300 SL restoration specialists and did my car's body....

 

So, I heard back from the shop today.  When they were fine tuning the surface a couple of days ago, a couple of low areas were apparent around where the head was weeping.  In the end about 0.38 mm had to be skimmed off to level it all up.  That's close to the recommended limits.  So, that is encouraging news.  I'll pick it up soon.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Hard lesson to learn when dealing with such old and rare engines imho....I'll bet they had their apprentice doing the work and they messed up and won't admit to it.  But hey....if it still works as it should without having to modify it then all is good except the time and expense it has cost you to resolve their mistakes.   I have learned this lesson early on in my restoration experience.  I have learned best to use a shop that deals with race engines which work with higher tolerances and give them the spec's required for your engine if they can't find them. I have restored many different types of engines and have only used 2 engine builders....sorry 3....only had 2 good ones, learned the same lesson from the first one. I only changed as the second builder was killed forcing me to search out a new builder. Both were small shops with one machinist/owner.  Both had a wall of race winning engines to their credit.

 

I also got them to do all the machining then I assemble everything.....so far no problems.....but this last one , my smart is the only one I have had extra pieces sitting on the bench when it was all assembled...lol....might be my last...lol.  But...that part could have come from other projects I had done in between the engine, so fingers crossed...lol.

 

Edited by Willys

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Got the head back today, it's very smooth, in fact I had to move out of the direct reflection so you can see it properly.

 

refinished head 1.jpeg

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Well, the pause has been very good!
I've had a chance to look more closely than I did before at the preparation of the internal engine parts.
Basically, I need to pull the block out of the car again, put it on the stand, and whip put the pistons and rods....because I did not change the connecting rod bolts. I had read in a Peugeot service Bulletin many years ago that they were no longer recommending systematic replacement of rod bolts at engine reassembly because the rod bolts were knurled and mounting them in the rod would ever so slightly affect the position of the rod cap and therefore the bearing positioning, which is BAD. That is correct, but the bulletin was from 1973....and my car is from 1966.
In 1966 (and probably up to 1970+) the 404 rods did NOT have knurling in them, but rather tight smooth sleeves to fit them in the rod holes. So that Bulletin does not apply to an earlier 404. Further, the workshop manual for the 404 KF2 states that the bolts and washers have to be changed systematically after every dismantling. In other words, they are stretch bolts.
The good news is that I have a set of eight of them, new old stock, with new washers and nuts. The bad news is it means a fair bit of new work. But: better now than later!
In 1987 when I did a basic rebuild on another KF2 engine, I did not change the rod bolts IIRC but that was as I say a rather basic rebuild and even though it was driven hard for 100,000 more km and never seemed to have a problem, I'd rather do this engine 100% properly.
In the photo: 8 new rod bolts, the ninth one at the bottom is a knurled bolt from a later Peugeot, probably a 504.

 

 

New Rod Bolts.jpeg

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Yeah it really was a brain fart on my part - I didn't read that part of the manual well enough before sending the engine to the shop.

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