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smartdawg

Club Shirt Discussion

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Just a quick interjection here - I spoke with Jason (Hemptown) again regarding the next order. He's very happy that we're very happy with the shirts. With this next order, his screen printer still requires we provide a run of approximately 40 shirts. The screen printer is a company situated to do only large run orders (typically for big corporate promo items) and hence the restriction (and the cheaper price).

If worse comes to worst, we can buy as many shirts from Hemptown as we need and then get the printing done elsewhere. The disadvantage to this is that it will be more expensive (Jason gets a deal by sending all screening business to his guy). Let's worry about this later once we know how many shirts we're going to need.

One other point - we will be charged a set up fee again with this order. This may sound counter intuitive since they already did a set up for us. Let me explain. Screen printing is not like embroidery where there's a one time fee to make a pattern that can be used over and over again. Screens for printing are reclaimed after each job. They are basically a screen door with film on them. Once the job is finished the screens are cleaned and set up for the next job. Set up fees for embroidery are one time, prints happen each time. Hope that clarifies things.

1. Xandria - 1 Babydoll Medium or 1 Babydoll Small (to confirm)

2. smartnhappy - 2 XXL

3.

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Thanks for the clarification, Kirk. And I don't think there'll be a problem with another 40 -- the extras will get snapped up sooner or later -- the membership here continues to rise, after all.

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Interesting about the setup fee... as mentioned before, I used to own a screen printing shop. You are correct that the screens get re-claimed, but about half the setup-fee (in my case) was used to produce positives from the artwork. That certainly doesn't need to be done again, unless he throws them out for some reason. So you should be getting a small break on the setup. Then again, you are getting a large break on the price (and minimum quantity) so it probably more than evens out in our favour :)

Its actually a neat process... for those interested (because I think its interesting :) ) here's how it works.

You take the artwork, and make positives (one for each colour) and print them onto clear "film" (like a transparancy). You then spread light-sensitive emulsion onto the silk screen (which is rarely made of silk anymore), put the "film" over it and zap it with light... the light -sensitive emulsion turns hard and water-proof wherever light was allowed to hit it (ie. your design). You simply take water and rinse off the non-hardened stuff and you are left with a negative... emulsion is everywhere except where your design was. The hardened emulsion keeps the ink from passing through the screen. Now, you spread the garment flat, put the screen over it - dump some ink on the screen and take a blade and spread it thin and evenly over the garment... wherever the emulsion wasn't (ie your design), the ink passes through to the garment. You do that for each colour and then you "bake" the shirt to cure the ink. Once the printer is done, he puts a special solvent on the hardened emulsion and cleans the screen so it is ready for another design.

Its not a terribly ecologically friendly process I'm afraid. At least it wasn't when I was in the biz. It got better once they moved to vegetable dyes, but the solvents and wasted emulsion aren't exactly the greatest system. Hopefully they've improved that :)

- Steven

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We have some members that are not on line and will be coming to the Oct 1 Rally.

I hope if there is any extra shirts someone will bring them.

I bet they will be scooped up quickly!

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Now, you spread the garment flat, put the screen over it - dump some ink on the screen and take a blade and spread it thin and evenly over the garment... wherever the emulsion wasn't (ie your design), the ink passes through to the garment.

The only thing I'd add to your great description of the screen-printing process is along the lines of a clarification of your above statement...

Rather than a blade to spread the ink, it's really more like a squeegee... think of it as squeegeeing (how the heck do you spell that word anyway, and can it really be used as a verb? :lookaround: ) the ink/paint through the screen. It passes through the screen everywhere that isn't blocked by that emulsion.

It's really a very interesting process, as you said.

(In another life, a long time ago, I was the Quebec sales manager for a company called Canada Decal... at the time they were the largest in the country. I don't even know if they still exist now.)

:beerchug:

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Lol Eldor... I couldn't spell "squeegeeeee" either... "blade" was easier :)

And on the machine I used, it was more like a scraping blade anyway - but you're right - a lot of conventional "spider" machines use rubber squeegee things.

- Steven

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Why doesn't someone step up to the plate and get 100 done? Or 5 people put in for 20 each - and take future sales out of them?

I know I want two more for sure, but there has to be an easier way than doing this through a discussion thread? I'd like to propose we have a static ordering page with the paypal link in it...

And yes - I would spring for 20 if there are others thinking the same thing. Just makes things so much easier - you want one - you order it - it gets shipped.

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Why doesn't someone step up to the plate and get 100 done? Or 5 people put in for 20 each - and take future sales out of them?

Honestly, if there was a larger discount for such an order, it does seem to make sense. However, who would take on the responsibility of managing the stock, mailing out orders, etc? If it's simply a question of capital I too would be willing to pitch in for at least 20, possibly up to 60 shirts so the club could carry a stock. I would also be willing to help out with processing orders, I've certainly got the free time. I don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes here though so please consider this as a simple suggestion. I'm sure there are logistics I'm not taking into account, but it does seem like a good idea.

Anyway, if this is decided to be a good idea I'll help out... :)

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Gee... this sound familiar :P

Seems to me... hmm... who was that?... someone in the past offered to do just this, and to sell them via his existing store. I can't seem to remember who that was.

- Steven

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Are they going to be the same design or can we take another look at the ones we had drawn up on the earlier thread. I still think the larger decal across the front was a good idea. It made the shrit stand out so it could be seen. We had several people wear the "Im with smart" shirts at the Kelowna rally and the print was so small that only because I have one myself I knew what it was unless I got closer to look. I have several large print shirts and I like them because they do stand out>>>>> Hoping.....

Also Steve, why don't you do something like a T shirt supply through your store? Just another thought. This way we could set up a variety of designs for constant sale and in many different colors....... Steve? you there?

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That was my original idea Sally - but it got shot down ;) And that's fine - things worked out pretty well this way! Dealing with on-going orders will be a pain, granted... but it shouldn't be too bad.

Anyway - I'm right strapped for cash now that I've placed an order to have stock in time for christmas - so there's no way I could front the cash for shirts as I originally offered. As always though, I'll help out in any way I can.

- Steven

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Ok, I am still wondering why we wouldn't buy them through you tho so you could make a buck on them and help you get on your feet since you and the lady are just starting out here. Common guys, couldn't we do that?

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Hope I am not stepping on toes by saying that but I want to see smartie parts make a strong go of it.

I wish to see Steve's smart related business do well as well. But it's important to have the club independent of any for profit activities.

I'm sure everyone would rather see the club make the money for the club coffers then a business.

Having multiple designs at this point in time is just not feasible. The costs and minimum orders requires puts it well out of reach.

Take the current shirt and put it backwards and you'll see why it's not a good idea to have that kind of LOGO on the front. Especially for women. :blush:

Personally I think having a new design and or colour each YEAR is a good idea. Maybe in the spring we can get other coloured shirts.

As everyone here has said, the shirts look incredible! They are a real joy.

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I'm just saying this to clarify...

My original offer CLEARLY laid out that I did not intend to make a dime off of it, and all procedes would go to the club. It was going to be exactly how it turned out, except it would have been executed quicker (not having to wait on orders and payments) and individually people would have paid slightly different amounts of shipping depending on location (some less, some more). I was simply offering an existing infrastructure to make things easier AND (at the time) I was also offering to front the cash so we didn't have to wait for everyone to get their ducks in a row. Thank's for the support Sally (and Dean), but it got shot down initially because of the misconception that aparantly still exists - that I was trying to do it for self-interest reasons. And that's fine - really, it saved me a headache I didn't really need at the time. The only bitterness is that people didn't trust my intentions. And that doesn't mean Dean specifically - I think he saw what others were worried about and he did the right thing by looking out for the group as a whole.

Really - I would have done the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot. Its politics and you need accountability. Other than "my word", it would have been pretty hard to know for sure that I wasn't skimming off the top and that I was accurately reporting my expenses. There does need to be a degree of seperation between private businesses and the club - I even stated that at the time (I had all angles down ;) ) - so I'm not upset about the decision.

I just want it known that the offer was there whole-heartedly to do my part for the club, both because I am a member and because I know this club is where smartieparts gets most of its customers. If it were profitable, I'd be donating money to help ensure the ongoing success of CsC - but since that wasn't possible, I thought I would help with the fund raising efforts.

I hope that all sounds right, and not "whiny" :)

- Steven

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Ok I didn't realize myself that it was for a fund raiser until now so I did step on toes, he he he ooooops. :blush:

I am willing to support both because we are all for a good cause and I am still waiting to hear how we are going to get the chat thing set up, some of us have made an offer to put money into it as a donation,,, Cait where are you when I need you? :help:

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Steve, it was also about potential misperception of others and a desire to not have to explain each time. I agree with Dean that things the club sells for its coffers should be handled separately from any for profit business regardless of the separation behind the scenes. That was my point as well then and it still is now. It is not personal.

On another note... I wonder what we'd have to do to *cough* take Relax up on his offer *cough* and put him in charge :-)

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Keith:

Why doesn't someone step up to the plate and get 100 done? Or 5 people put in for 20 each - and take future sales out of them?

Relax:

Honestly, if there was a larger discount for such an order, it does seem to make sense.

Guys, buying a larger order will not provide us with any greater discount since we're already getting the best deal possible from Hemptown. Let me break it down.

For the last order, we paid a piece rate of $7.95 per shirt for an order of 84 shirts. If we had been charged Hemptown's normal price, we would have paid around $10.00 per shirt (before all the screen printing charges, shipping, etc). Hemptown normally reserves the $7.95 piece price for orders of 1400 units or greater. Again, we got a deal. Ordering 100-200 shirts will not lower the price any. If you're thinking that we can get shirts cheaper elsewhere, we'll you're probably right. But they won't be organic hemp specialty t's but more likely run-of-the-mill cotton throw-aways.

I do agree, however, that having somebody or a group of people buy a large number just so they're available would be a good idea. That way there's always a supply for latecomers. Just keep in mind that this approach won't secure any extra discounts for us.

-Kirk.

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Steve, it was also about potential misperception of others and a desire to not have to explain each time. I agree with Dean that things the club sells for its coffers should be handled separately from any for profit business regardless of the separation behind the scenes. That was my point as well then and it still is now. It is not personal.

On another note... I wonder what we'd have to do to *cough* take Relax up on his offer *cough* and put him in charge :-)

Of course, which is why I wrote what I wrote about "if the shoe was on the other foot" - I completely understand the reasoning behind it. More now than then, because at the time SmartieParts was just a "who knows what'll happen" and I couldn't really care less what happened with profits, etc. Since then - I've dumped significant $$$ into stock and am making a real go of it.

It really isn't an issue :) I'm HAPPY with how it turned out! It was a smashing success.... but lets confuse the issue with two more ideas I have: (hehehe)

1) I was thinking: there's still a lot of hassles and expenses of running a "store" just for the purposes of selling t-shirts so perhaps you guys can make use of my a) ssl certificate so data collection is secure and you don't have to pay for your own; B) my server - only necessary if you want "a"; c) My shopping cart knowledge. I went and learned it for me so I could set one up for you; d) My shipping/receiving; So you guys pay for the shirts and have them ship the bulk order to me. Orders come in to me (to "CsC fundraising", not "smartieparts") and a copy goes to you automatically, and payments go to you (with a copy to me so I know to send it - or I simply wait for an email from you... whatever). I fulfill the order and you collect the money. Then, the only "mess" is figureing out a shipping charge per-shirt and you reimburse me that for the number of shirts sold (either a pre-agreed amount or go by actual postal receipts). Xan/TFM/etc - dismiss this outright if you think its still not "arms-length" enough for the public eye... its just an offer to help. I figure if you *do* want to start taking on-going orders that its best to sell in a "store" setting instead of a "group buy" setting, and I'm going to the post office every day anyway.

2) This one is less seperate, but perhaps you'd like it anyway. This one DOES involve smartieparts directly... its also something I suppose I don't really need "permission" to do, but I thought I'd check to see if you think it might look bad or whatever before I started doing it. I brought in a whole whack of smart keychains. I was supposed to get them in time for the Hastings even but they didn't show - so I ended up ordering double what I would have. I was going to sell them for $10 each but instead dropped it to $7 to get rid of them. I was thinking, I could set up a special page at $10 (or $12 or $15) with the difference (x - $7) being donated to CsC. Again, I know I look at things from a different vantage point, naturally, so let me know if you don't want me to do this and I won't.

Either, both, neither... it matters not. They're just suggestions.

A side note to "1" above - if you think that's NOT a good idea, I still see no reason to re-invent the wheel so perhaps I could simply work with Danny (or whoever) and teach them the shopping cart so there's not such a steep learning curve. Or you can set up an account on your server, give me access to it for a few days and I can set up and configure it, and then give the access to whoever takes it over - passwords can easily be changed from the admin panel. There are tons of shopping carts out there. This one, I find, is particularly good and is OpenSource.

- Steven

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Just keep in mind that this approach won't secure any extra discounts for us.

Perhaps not on the material costs, but there would be savings available in other areas - shipping, packaging... but mostly time.

As for the possibility of getting common cotton t's instead... I, for one, would rather support a company that shares similar ideals to the smart community, and who has supported us by giving us the discount in the first place.

But here's a thought - might it get more expensive?? I mean - they might have figured "ahh 40 shirts - not making any money but who cares... its a one time thing for my bro"... so is this just going to become a pain in the ass for him?

- Steven

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Perhaps not on the material costs, but there would be savings available in other areas - shipping, packaging... but mostly time.

Good point! I should have mentioned that.

As for the possibility of getting common cotton t's instead... I, for one, would rather support a company that shares similar ideals to the smart community, and who has supported us by giving us the discount in the first place.

Ditto.

But here's a thought - might it get more expensive?? I mean - they might have figured "ahh 40 shirts - not making any money but who cares... its a one time thing for my bro"... so is this just going to become a pain in the ass for him?

Funny you should mention that. I was talking with Jason last night and asked him a similar question. His reponse was that he has no problem continuing to provide this deal. His reasons - a) I'm involved with the club, and B) Hemptown wants to encourage and support groups with similar environmental philosphies. Don't worry about the deal evaporating - that is unless I somehow manage to get myself

:banned:

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Do we have pics of the shirts?

I'd also love to see any pictures so I have some idea of what they look like. Thanks!

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Do we have pics of the shirts?

I'd also love to see any pictures so I have some idea of what they look like. Thanks!

Pictures can be found Here.

Pictures of someone wearing the shirt can be found Here.

Search is an amazing thing.

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