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BJSmart

how to cover radiator for winter?

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I have seen comments on this forum re covering the radiator with cardboard for the winter to help the engine reach & maintain normal operating temperature. Would someone please provide details (or even better - pics)on how they have done this. Our diesel smart will be mostly doing around town errands in near-north Ontario so it will need all the heat retention help it can get! btw...it's been a very chilly autumn and so far the interior of our '05 Cabrio has been heating quite comfortably, in large part me thinks the heated seats are the key to comfort!

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I used foam 1/2" water pipe insulation on the upper grille. 39¢ for a three-foot section at Home Depot or Rona. Just trim to length and stuff it in. I didn't cover the lower grille opening last winter, but if it's cold enough this year I will try it with stiff packaging foam -- similar to the pipe insulation, it's usually dark gray or light blue.Another tip, which I got here courtesy of Bilgladstone, is to remove the driver's side cowl vent screen and cover the opening. Basically, remove the screen, then lift out and remove the duct funnel. Put it away for winter -- I put it under the passenger seat. Then use Saran Wrap or similar to cover the inner screen to block airflow. Put it back in place, then put the cowl vent cover back in. This trick accomplishes two things: first, it stops the vent from taking in icy cold outside air, instead getting outside air indirectly from behind the front panel. This air maybe slightly pre-warmed by the radiator, too. Second, it lessens the buildup of moisture inside the smart's small cabin -- and hence lessens fogging the windows -- by preventing the intake of snow and rain through the screen. The first few times you use the heater after doing this seasonal mod, it may smell somewhat funky, but after a while that goes away.HTH

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I wrapped the grill inserts of high density foam with black plastic so it is pretty much invisible in the grill area, the lower part i sewed up some black vinyl around a piece of high density foam and just jammed it up in there, Some will say it makes no difference but i beg too differ.when it's -35 or more outside every little bit helps. This along with Bil's suggestion it should help IMO. Best of luckI hope my pics load OK.post-2861-1257209371_thumb.jpgpost-2861-1257209383_thumb.jpgpost-2861-1257209393_thumb.jpgpost-2861-1257209401_thumb.jpg

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You can also simply do this:Use a pair of scissors,and cut a piece of cardboard out of an unused box, about the same size as the radiator, (which is visible through/under the grill. )Also cut out a small hole in the centre of the piece of cardboard,about 3 inches square.This is so the fan can suck some air, if it cuts in.Then simply slide the cut piece of cardboard UP (the lower grill opening ) in front of the radiator. The bottom edge of the cardboard,can then be stuck between the colored body panel,and black plastic behind it. This holds it in place.If your smart is a diesel, PLUG IN YOUR BLOCK-HEATER, AS RECOMENDED IN YOUR OWNER'S MANUAL!You only need to plug it in for 2 hours,from 0 degrees, to minus 10 degrees.Below minus 10 degrees,plug it in for 3 hours.This is so your engine will warm up quicker, and pollute less. It also throws heat faster,and is much easier on the engine.ALSO,DO NOT IDLE YOUR DIESEL ENGINE,FOR MORE THAN A MINUTE,AFTER STARTING YOUR CAR! Get in and drive it. It will NOT warm up if let idleing.

Edited by PrairieBoy

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You can also simply do this:

Use a pair of scissors,and cut a piece of cardboard out of an unused box, about the same size as the radiator, (which is visible through/under the grill. )

Also cut out a small hole in the centre of the piece of cardboard,about 3 inches square.This is so the fan can suck some air, if it cuts in.

Then simply slide the cut piece of cardboard UP (the lower grill opening ) in front of the radiator. The bottom edge of the cardboard,can then be stuck between the colored body panel,and black plastic behind it. This holds it in place.

Your grandad did this on his '52 ford. Ask him.

If your smart is a diesel,

PLUG IN YOUR BLOCK-HEATER, AS RECOMENDED IN YOUR OWNER'S MANUAL!

You only need to plug it in for 2 hours,from 0 degrees, to minus 10 degrees.

Below minus 10 degrees,plug it in for 3 hours.

This is so your engine will warm up quicker, and pollute less. It also throws heat faster,and is much easier on the engine.

I plug mine in all night

ALSO,DO NOT IDLE YOUR DIESEL ENGINE,FOR MORE THAN A MINUTE,AFTER STARTING YOUR CAR! Get in and drive it. It will NOT warm up if let idleing.

Correction: It won't warm up at normal idle. Get a chip out of the woodpile and fit it between the throttle and the heater vent. Wiggle it 'til you get about 1200 rpm sustainable and it warms up a treat.

Carl

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Yes,a diesel will warm up at a fast idle, but that wastes fuel, and pollutes more.A smart must be one of the few diesel powered vehicles without a 'fast idle knob'.Large trucks/tractors,etc, all have a control,so you can speed up the engine ,and hold the RPM's there.

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I don't know of any current turbo-diesel cars with a fast idle control. Even my non-computerized, non-turbo, indirect-injection 2.4 L VW Transporter had no knobs or handles to control idle speed.

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Thats why, like the smart CDI,you must just get in it and drive it,to warm it up!You also MUST either have heated seats, or an inexpensive heated seat pad.At least one butt will be warm that way!

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Yes,a diesel will warm up at a fast idle, but that wastes fuel, and pollutes more.

A five minute warm up gets me to the first blob by the time I leave the yard at -20. Its an insignificant amount of fuel which would probably be exceeded by the amount used to run heated seats (which I don't have) by the time I get to work.Carl

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I still believe what the owners manual said, about idling: that idling for more than 30 seconds,wastes fuel.They even suggested,turning off the engine at traffic lights! I never did this,but i always turned off the engine while waiting for trains.

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ALSO,DO NOT IDLE YOUR DIESEL ENGINE,FOR MORE THAN A MINUTE,AFTER STARTING YOUR CAR! Get in and drive it. It will NOT warm up if let idleing.

My CDI warms the coolant to about 35C if left idling for around 5 minutes with an outdoor air temperature of about -10C. If the OAT is colder than -10C it will generally warm the coolant to about 15-30C in the same 5 minute period, after which I will get in and fast-idle (hold the accelerator so that the engine revs to about 2000rpm) until the coolant temp reaches 40C before leaving. This is all Scangauge-data.I'd rather lose 0.2L/100km than an 8000$ engine. But I'm a sucker for total life cycle costs. Something about spinning a turbo to 200 000rpm when the housing and oil are -20C and the exhaust gases are 700C that strikes me as being less than ideal. Edited by booneylander

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I still believe what the owners manual said, about idling: that idling for more than 30 seconds,wastes fuel.They even suggested,turning off the engine at traffic lights! I never did this,but i always turned off the engine while waiting for trains.

Following the owner's manual might be all well and good for conditions in Europe but certainly not during winters in Canada.

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I'd rather lose 0.2L/100km than an 8000$ engine. But I'm a sucker for total life cycle costs. Something about spinning a turbo to 200 000rpm when the housing and oil are -20C and the exhaust gases are 700C that strikes me as being less than ideal.

Yup, what he said !!

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Yes I warm up the Cat in the Frightliner (spelling intentional) and the Cummins in the KW. Yes they unquestionably pollute more at high idle. They'd pollute a helluva lot more than that if I tried to run them immediately. But we're talking about an 800cc triple. I'm pretty sure the increase in pollution is negligible.And about the manual: anybody who turns off their engine at a traffic light should have their head examined. Its insane. I think that must have been MB's little trick to gain on-the-road accident information.Carl

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My personal limit is -35 in still air (wind chill is irrelevant unless your car is soaking wet). After that I don't even bother trying to start it.Carl

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The smart cdi diesel engine is not built to run at cold temp on idle speed. That make a lot of condensation in crankcase and in EGR/intake system. The oil pressure is too low at idle speed to feed perfectly the turbo. The cold diesel combustion produce high pollution level... juste have to smell behind a common rail diesel car when the car idling for a couple of minutes during cold weather. The smell is just too toxic. Poor combustion temp create cylinder bore icing too = less compression and oil compsumption. Oil conmpsumption create too much carbon in oil and let clog EGR system and intake manifold by oily exhaust gaz recyrculation. So, idling is just too bad for a CDI engine. Alternative:-Garaged keept-auxliary heating system (Webasto, espar, proheat etc...)So, about the cover for the radiator, it's completely useless. The engine coolant is not supposed to pass in the radiator as long as the coolant temp is not up to 82°c. If you can feel heat at lower hose of the radiator before the 3 bubble are there, the thermostat must be replace! And if your thermostat work great, you can cover the rad but the coolant will be not more hot!! Do you understand what I want to mean??? So... I hope to was heplful. Have a great evening !Dom

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In general, all diesel engines sip fuel very sparingly at idle. Gas engines tend to be quite wasteful when idling, so this is one strong advantage of diesel engines over gasoline. In the pre-Al Gore days, truckers would often idle their rigs all night at a truck stop to generate enough heat and power so they could sleep comfortably. Perhaps some still do, though the majority now use small diesel-fired auxiliary cabin heaters. It's a well-known fact that diesel locomotives are NEVER shut down, except for maintenance. If these large-displacement engines with 6, 8, or 12 cylinders can be idled for pennies an hour, I can't imagine that a three-cylinder 800cc engine will use anything more than negligible amounts of fuel.Yes, there are perhaps durability issues around idling. But as someone who has worked on diesel engines, I cringe even more at the thought of pulling onto a highway and winding a cold motor up to 100 km/h - or any speed north of 1500 RPM - until the at least some engine heat registers on the gauge. You are doing immense damage to your motor, forcing the metal parts to heat up far faster than they are designed to.dieselkiki - the same amount of condensation will occur regardless of how slowly or quickly the engine is warmed up. Also, the turbo should hardly be spinning at all when your car is at an idle. And even if it did, I'd be far more concerned by the prospect of forcing stiff, cold oil into it under acceleration when driving. And lastly, all diesels put lots of carbon into the oil, regardless of how they are started or driven. That is one reason why we use synthetic oils in our Smarts.Please keep in mind that General Motors has put the same crap about it being "unnecessary to idle the car longer than 30 seconds" into its owner manuals since the 1970s. Whoever writes this stuff has never driven a car in a Canadian winter, nor have they had to pay for the repairs to engines that age prematurely and need to be rebuilt once the warranty expires.

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Coming from California, I can say the hypermilers and people who shut off their cars at traffic lights (or anywhere waiting longer than 30 seconds or whatever the amount of fuel required to start a car is) ... these are people who are in areas without winter or extreme cold ... california design houses in Los Angeles or the middle of Hawaii or somewhere like that, where you can turn your engine off and chat at the people stuck in traffic next to you blah blah blah ... don't ever do it in the height of Winter hehe ...

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So what is the general concensus on take off temps ? The below numbers are Scangauge with outside temps just below freezing.I've been using the block heater which brings the temp to about 80-90 F. I leave the driveway 1 minute after starting the car but I drive in 2nd or 3rd , never above 2000 rpm. by the time I hit the highway, I'm above 1 bubble [104 F] and usually up to 120 F or so. I acellerate gently up to about 90 kph in 6th and get 2 bubbles within 2 kms. I rarely see 3 bubbles by the time I get into town [about 14 kms total]Bobb

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If you cover the rad,(not just the grill) you should easily have three blobs showing on your dash display, especially after driving on the highway in the winter.I always covered up my radiator in the winter,and after driving for quite a while in the city, it would show three blobs.Just use a piece of cardboard, cut to fit over the radiator, leaving a small 3 or four inch hole in the center.

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So what is the general concensus on take off temps ? The below numbers are Scangauge with outside temps just below freezing.I've been using the block heater which brings the temp to about 80-90 F. I leave the driveway 1 minute after starting the car but I drive in 2nd or 3rd , never above 2000 rpm. by the time I hit the highway, I'm above 1 bubble [104 F] and usually up to 120 F or so. I acellerate gently up to about 90 kph in 6th and get 2 bubbles within 2 kms. I rarely see 3 bubbles by the time I get into town [about 14 kms total]Bobb

I tink that is the better way to operate a smart CDI in the winter. Personally, I never have to plug the block heater in the past and the CDI engine never refused to start during cold weather. So, if you need a proof... enjoye!
The advice is "do not run the car on short distance". Battery stay full, emission system stay clean, no condensation accumulation in crankcase, etc...

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You don't HAVE to plug it in,but it is MUCH better for the engine,and it will throw heat much faster.

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My CDI warms the coolant to about 35C if left idling for around 5 minutes with an outdoor air temperature of about -10C. If the OAT is colder than -10C it will generally warm the coolant to about 15-30C in the same 5 minute period, after which I will get in and fast-idle (hold the accelerator so that the engine revs to about 2000rpm) until the coolant temp reaches 40C before leaving. This is all Scangauge-data.

So, the 5 min idle is about the same as plugging the car in for 3 hours. :D

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