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brd

451 Remaps? Anybody Have One?

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Just curious if anybody has a remap on their 451. FastEddy @ Flying Tiger in BC does them for ~$1200. However:

There is a delicate lock that need to be removed and re-install in the process of remapping a 451. Which prevent us from performing this task outside our shop. Our current price is $1200.00

I've come across this US vendor who is looking for $575US for an "ECU upgrade":http://www.smartcar-performance.com/They require you to ship them your ECU, which as per FastEddy is a bit tricky to remove.Anyway, smartcar-performance claim the following results "at the wheel" with their upgrade:Stock 64.97 HP Torque 59.60Remap 73.05 HP Torque 63.11Remap+Hyperpipe 76.69 HP Torque 66.61+K&N drop inHowever, they have the following caution on their website: "SC Performance offers this service with the understanding that this remap will only be used on cars that are for off road use only."This caution seems to place this upgrade in the "useless" category for most of us.Then there are the European vendors such as this outfit:http://www.der-autoladen.de/smart%20tuning...1%2071%20PS.htmThey claim an even greater improvement in HP for 500 euros or ~$800CDN. They claim ~18% gain at 3000rpm's if I understand what they have at this link.Anyway, does anybody out there have experience with a 451 remap?

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I stand to be corrected but better performance gains can be had with changing the intake, exhaust manifold and exhaust. If you need more performance than that you need to look at nitrous or a turbo.

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Remapping a naturally aspirated car will give minimal benefit as this dyno test shows. Add 62.5% more power on a smart cdi turbo (Eddy remap), or 12.5% more on a non-turbo 451 (this one).....Doing a turbo conversion on a 451 would be far more rewarding.....and expensive. If speed matters a lot to you, you probably should get a different car.

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I have a US 451 and had my ECU remapped by INMotion. I was looking more for the increase in rev limiter and top speed, but I was quite satisfied with the increase in torque over the 4500 - 6000 rpm range. I did not dyno it pre and post, but I can tell you it definetely pulls harder.

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I stand to be corrected but better performance gains can be had with changing the intake, exhaust manifold and exhaust. If you need more performance than that you need to look at nitrous or a turbo.

if you go Brabus with what you suggest you are talking $3k CDN plus installation & taxes. The European remap looks like it will get you the same performance increase for less than a third of that price. Edited by brd

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Doing a turbo conversion on a 451 would be far more rewarding.....and expensive.

Too bad the muppets running smart Canada didn't bring the turbo smart option in. But then again they are the same brains who couldn't be bothered to bring in the MHD, which is standard equipment in Europe, and dropped the smart loyalty bonus.

If speed matters a lot to you, you probably should get a different car.

You miss the point entirely. So I guess you wouldn't be interested in a turbo-charged 451 smart, you would get a different car. Edited by brd

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I have a US 451 and had my ECU remapped by INMotion. I was looking more for the increase in rev limiter and top speed, but I was quite satisfied with the increase in torque over the 4500 - 6000 rpm range. I did not dyno it pre and post, but I can tell you it definetely pulls harder.

thanks for the input - I'll check them out.

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You miss the point entirely.

Do I?

My point is that even a turbo smart BRABUS Ultimate 112 is outdragged by a stripper Corolla, so whomever is motivated by speed ought to look somewhere else for it unless you would want to put $15K into a Hayabusa conversion. If having a smart that can _almost_ keep up with an automatic Yaris is the goal, fill your boots!

Actually I would consider a FIAT Abarth, we will see.....because you are right, we are highly unlikely to see any turbocharged factory smart offered in Canada. So the rhetorical question is one that will not be needing any answer.

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Do I?

My point is that even a turbo smart BRABUS Ultimate 112 is outdragged by a stripper Corolla, so whomever is motivated by speed ought to look somewhere else for it unless you would want to put $15K into a Hayabusa conversion. If having a smart that can _almost_ keep up with an automatic Yaris is the goal, fill your boots!

Actually I would consider a FIAT Abarth, we will see.....because you are right, we are highly unlikely to see any turbocharged factory smart offered in Canada. So the rhetorical question is one that will not be needing any answer.

yes you miss the point entirely.

The point of this thread IS EXPERIENCE WITH 451 REMAPS NOT TURBOCHARGED smarts DRAG RACING STRIPPER COROLLAS OR A YARIS.

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The I don't think he missed the point at all, because the numbers don't lie. Mike offered an opinion, even though he doesn't have experience driving a remapped, naturally aspirated 451. Seriously, a gain of eight -- EIGHT! -- hp and THREE lb-ft torque... for $1200??? Why?

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The I don't think he missed the point at all, because the numbers don't lie. Mike offered an opinion, even though he doesn't have experience driving a remapped, naturally aspirated 451. Seriously, a gain of eight -- EIGHT! -- hp and THREE lb-ft torque... for $1200??? Why?

You & Mike must be fun at office meetings, keeping right on the agenda. You both miss the point of the thread. Thank you Mike for your opinion on the value of 451 remaps now please can you provide some insight into YOUR experience with such a remap? :mellow: Oh, you want to rabble on about drag racing "stripper corollas"? Oh thanks that's right on topic. :lol:

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I have a US 451 and had my ECU remapped by INMotion. I was looking more for the increase in rev limiter and top speed, but I was quite satisfied with the increase in torque over the 4500 - 6000 rpm range. I did not dyno it pre and post, but I can tell you it definetely pulls harder.

Did INMotion provide you with the instructions to remove your ECU? If so, how long did it take to remove it? thanks

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Yes. At the time they did not have anything electronic to send me, so I talked to them over the phone and sent some pics via email to confirm that they could flash my ECU (based on serial number) before I pulled it. Took 10 minutes tops to pull it, just because I had never taken that interior panel off. Actually it was good practice for installing my Area 451 cruise control. But that's off topic, :D

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I missed your point on purpose, brd, because your "point" is pointless :DI think you would be better off seeking a 451 turbo kit from smart madness in the USA if you want to make the car more than a tenth or two faster in the SS 1/4 mile.

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I missed your point on purpose, brd, because your "point" is pointless :DI think you would be better off seeking a 451 turbo kit from smart madness in the USA if you want to make the car more than a tenth or two faster in the SS 1/4 mile.

Again you miss the point entirely. :lol: The point is not to " to make the car more than a tenth or two faster in the SS 1/4 mile" unless you are an adolescent. :P Oh and thank you for contributing your real life experiences with a 451 remap, which is the whole point of this thread. Edited by brd

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So to remain off-topic, why would you WANT a remap if not to go faster like the Honda Boyz? :lol:

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So to remain off-topic, why would you WANT a remap if not to go faster like the Honda Boyz? :lol:

Unlike you Mike, I'm not interested in drag racing stripper Corollas or "Honda Boyz". Basic point of a remap is to, amongst other things: - improve gear changes, - better throttle response- get a tich more power- improve fuel economy slightly- remove the speed limiterAll in all get the full performance the smart is capable of. ;) You would be aware of all of the above if you had a remap on your cdi. :lol: I for one am not considering spending $1200 for a remap unless somebody out there reports excellent results. Hey maybe I should start a thread asking if anybody out there has experience wiith 451 remaps! :P

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Have you posted this question on smart car of America? Also ask why almost none of them are using a remap and instead have gone with new intakes, headers, exhausts, nitrous and turbos.

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Basic point of a remap is to, amongst other things: - improve gear changes, - better throttle response- get a tich more power- improve fuel economy slightly- remove the speed limiterAll in all get the full performance the smart is capable of. ;)

Except that, as pointed out many many times, on a non-turbocharged engine -- gas OR diesel -- a remap achieves little -- or none -- of your list above. There is a very fundamental reason why remaps are offered for so few naturally-aspirated cars anywhere in the world. And that is: cost-to-benefit ratio, which is extremely high. Can't you see we're trying to be helpful here, and not antagonistic? You are getting a LOT of helpful advice here, and an explanation as to why virtually NOBODY has "any experience with 451 remaps" in North America.

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Have you posted this question on smart car of America? Also ask why almost none of them are using a remap and instead have gone with new intakes, headers, exhausts, nitrous and turbos.

I might end up posting on SCOA judging by the response here so far i.e. one member with a 451 remap.I am not interested in any mod that would with 100% certainty result in my warranty being cancelled by MBC.So I am not interested in spending $3-5000 on a turbo upgrade due to cost alone and the warranty aspect. I might go the way of a new intake but I note that somebody on this forum installed one & their engine eventually failed; the ~$5k (?) replacement cost was not covered by warranty.I am considering an exhaust upgrade after spending an afternoon in a 451 Brabus. Not sure what the advantages are to the European Brabus exhaust versus the NA version [Flying Tiger offers both] but there is a huge difference in cost.I don't know anything about nitrous.So all in all, the options left on the table for me will all cost substantially more than a $350US or a $575US remap. And none of them look like they will deliver more than a remap.

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I personally wouldn't get a remap from anyone who didn't have a ton of experience...3-6 HP gains just don't do it for me.What you need is a cdi, you'd see some HUGE gains with a remap!

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I am once again quite willing to be corrected but my understanding is that the Brabus exhaust supplied on the N.A. cars gives no performance gains.As for the issue with the one intake causing an engine failure, it was either an installation issue or a failure on the part of the intake. If you purchase an intake from a reputable source you should be fine.A new intake alone should give you similar performance numbers to the remap and if the intake was to cause an issue change it back before the dealer gets the car.I believe that if the dealership discovered your car was remapped and decided that was the cause of some failure, you would be out of pocket for the repair.

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Make no mistake: ANY remap may increase the likelihood of a denied warranty claim, or at least some complications in having potentially related warranty work done.Any M-B/smart dealer will know if a car has been remapped.The benefits demonstrated by the NA 451 remap are so weak that the nominal risk to your warranty is not justifiable, nor is the expenditure of even a few hundred dollars, in my view. But go for it if you want, it makes no difference to us.....

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