Ethanol Blended Gasoline

[quirky1 1]

I noticed Chevron has applied stickers to their pumps stating regular, mid-grade, and premium may contain up to 10% ethanol while premium Plus contains no ethanol. According to Wikipedia, if I'm reading it properly, ethanol fuel containing 10% ethanol will have a reduction of approximately 3% on fuel economy. If that is the case, which grade of gasoline would be the better deal - premium (E10) or premium Plus with no ethanol? Premium Plus has a higher octane level and costs 3 cents more than premium. Any concerns using an ethanol blend in the smart?In case you're wondering if E10 is acceptable for the 451, page 212 of the Operator's Manual states:

Unleaded gasoline containing oxygenates such as ethanol, IPA, IBA and TBA can be used provided the ratio of any one of these oxygenates to gasoline does not exceed 10%; MTBE must not exceed 15%.Gasohol, which contains 10% ethanol and 90% unleaded gasoline, can be used.

[Huronlad 186]

I would go with the non ethanol blended fuel.

[MightyMouseTech 0]

I always use Shell V-Power (91 Octane) in all my vehicles that require gas. Largely due to the fact it does not contain any ethanol. Although, it may be good to use the premium with ethanol in the winter, as ethanol is what gas line antifreeze is made of, and so it will absorb any water in the fuel and allow it to be burned.

[smartzuuk 167]

BC has a renewable fuel law now in effect, so it's not just Chevron. A bit snaky IMO to make the 94 ethanol free... also note Chevron dropped 92 from it's pumps in favour of 91...The 451 doesn't run too well on 87, and 89 is passable, but they really want 91... Be careful to buy this only from a high volume location - and in BC, Chevron is a good bet. Don't get too worked up about the ethanol, but that said, the 94 is only a few pennies more, so the 94 may be a better bet for some drivers if they are already fuelling at Chevron.

[quirky1 1]

It's difficult to do the math when the actual volume of ethanol is unknown, only that it's up to 10%. One small advantage to using supreme plus is that the pump has a dedicated hose whereas the other three grades share one. This means you get what you pay for and not someone else's fuel selection remaining in the hose, which I imagine could be a half litre or so.Contained in the federal government's Bill C-33:

Amendments to the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999 proposed in this bill allow the federal government to implement regulations requiring 5% average renewable content in gasoline by 2010. Subsequent regulations will also require 2% average renewable content in diesel and heating oil by 2012 on successful demonstration of renewable diesel fuel use under the range of Canadian environmental conditions.

smartzuuk,Is this the law you were thinking of or did B.C. pass its own law in this regard?

[lebikerboy 96]

Yes, they did...

http://www.energyplan.gov.bc.ca/PDF/BC_Ene...tive_Energy.pdf

[quirky1 1]

Thanks, lebikerboy. The provincial government extended the RFS for diesel but not for gasoline. Ten percent ethanol at the pump seem excessive unless they plan on selling a lot of premium plus to bring the average down to five required by law. From the document:

In Spring 2006, the federal government announced its intention to proceed with a five per cent average national renewable fuel standard (RFS) in Canada’s gasoline by 2010, and a two per cent national average RFS for Canada’s diesel fuel no later than 2012. British Columbia is supportive of the national RFS to help reduce transportation-related air emissions and advance the renewable fuel industry in Canada, and will move beyond the federal RFS by adopting a five per cent biodiesel requirement in provincial diesel fuel supplies by 2010.

[MikeT 744]

I may go for the 94 as well now. For the B 200 that is!

[Francesco 71]

No offense to those who think a low percentage of ethanol is a terrible thing for their engines, but I'd rather use gas with ethanol in it than MTBE, IPA (isopropanol) or TBA (tert-butanol).

[MikeT 744]

Canada still uses MTBE as far as I know (free trade lawsuit).

[Francesco 71]

Yep.

[smartzuuk 167]

Nope, MTBE has been phased out, although yes, it was a free-trade issue at one point. Lots on google if you like...The Ethanol 'up to' 10% allows them to increase the % locally to account for market fluctuations/availability/seasonality and other variables.For diesel, they relaxed the overall % to 3 from 5, but in the Lower Mainland, it will be higher than in Ft St John or Terrace... they have allowed the fuel company to hit the target on an overall basis without being too restrictive on forcing the % into every pump at every station.Chevron 94 is likely going to be a good seller IMO, because if you are already using premium, it's just a few pennies more.... and has NO ethanol. Plus, like I said, they killed the 92 they offered, and changed to 91. The Chevron rack dispensed 87, 89, 91, 92 and 94 to trucks previously, and I'll have to confirm if 92 is dropped entirely now. Logically, I would say yes. (Side note - I can still get 92 in Washington state, but 94 is non-existent from what I can tell...)One other small item to consider... 87 grade from some stations may not be that great if they are low volume - because of stratification - different components in the fuel mix separating out... Only Chevron in BC (Lower Mainland) recrack their fuel (refine it again) from the residue last contained - ie: other grades, distillates, diesel, etc.... the others have a formula to go by where they will add more 89 or 91 to the fuel tanker to get an overall 87 octane rating..... (or 89, or 91 etc......)No big deal if the volume at the station is good, but if it's really low volume, you can get some lower octane than 87 from time to time.... The Chevron trucks flush the residue out and re-refine it to maintain that legendary quality they are said to have. (My dad delivers fuel for Chevron.)

Edited February 5, 2010 by smartzuuk

[Francesco 71]

AFAIK, MTBE hasn't been banned outright in Canada, but is currently in only a tiny percentage of Canadian gasoline. But it has been replaced as an oxygenate by isopropanol and t-butanol, for the most part -- both of which are derived from petroleum.

[smart65 28]

In 2008, when I bought a new snow blower, the dealer included a message on the invoice, urging that only ethanol-free gasoline be used. His advice: use Shell premium in air cooled engines. He personally contacted Shell about this. They confirmed that their premium gas contains no ethanol. and they have no plans to change that. Since then, our lawn mower and snow blower have both been fed Shell premium. I don't know the reasoning, but he was adamant about avoiding ethanol for trouble-free operation.

[quirky1 1]

Ethanol blends are a bit of a ripoff since I suspect the price has not been reduced to match the reduction in energy per litre of gas. I stopped by a Shell station today to check out the ethanol content in their gas. There was no mention of ethanol on the pumps and the attendants had no idea how much or even whether the gas contained any.

[briand 0]

Ethanol blends are a bit of a ripoff since I suspect the price has not been reduced to match the reduction in energy per litre of gas. I stopped by a Shell station today to check out the ethanol content in their gas. There was no mention of ethanol on the pumps and the attendants had no idea how much or even whether the gas contained any.

Hear hear Quirky1!! I've been trying to rally people around that cry here in the Southeast United States. Unfortunately, people here are idiots, devoid of critical thinking and action so I look and sound like a loon.

Interesting fact (and i'm trying to find my source now) about ehtanol: it takes more energy to make ethanol than ethanol can produce. Meaning that ethanol's energy per measurement is net negative!!

All regular petrol fuel grades in the Southeast United States require up to 10% ethanol. So while you lucky Candians can get the 94 octane sans ethanol, ALL grades of petrol (and we have different selections depending on the area of the US) here have ethanol. Very rare to see anything above 93 octane at filling stations.

Stupid government and agri-business trying to put corn into everything. Its ruining things

Edited February 5, 2010 by briand

[quirky1 1]

Same response to that at Shell when I visited a Petro-Canada station - no information on ethanol. Maybe it's still early days for implementation.

Interesting fact (and i'm trying to find my source now) about ehtanol: it takes more energy to make ethanol than ethanol can produce. Meaning that ethanol's energy per measurement is net negative!!

I've read articles that have come to the same conclusion when all inputs are taken into account. Then there's the destruction of rain forests and the removal of land for food production that goes with it. The propriety of production of ethanol for use as fuel is a topic for another discussion.

[higaran 0]

I'm experiencing another problem with ethanol-blended gasoline here in Manitoba: my 451 has problems starting at any temperature below -20 C. Anyone who does some research on ethanol can see why immediately: this fuel simply does not ignite easily at very low temperatures. I used to have this problem only when I filled at Husky / Mohawk during the winter, but now every fuel company seems to be blending ethanol. I'm sick and tired of having to boost the car at least once every couple of weeks during the winter, and I'd gladly pay an extra ten cents per liter for a high-octane gas that's guaranteed to be ethanol-free. I'm looking into replacing the battery (because I've cranked it dry too many times) and switching to some "hotter" spark plugs, but I'm thoroughly frustrated with this issue.