A/c Problems

[Squeeakers 0]

Hi All,I've been reading this forum on and off over the years, but never posted yet. I tried searching the forum for these topics but it wouldn't let me search "AC" or "A/C", just air conditioning. My A/C breaks every year, sometimes several times a year.....it's broken right now even. My lease is up July and I just got the call from Mercedes about the car. I LOVE this car, but I can't go on fixing the air conditioner every couple of months. I'm torn now about keeping the car or ditching it for a newer model.So, my questions are:Is it possible to FIX the A/C problem permanently?And:Do the newer models have this problem? (I heard they even have more than one cup holder and *gasp* power windows from the driver's side)Thanks,Squeeaks

[ianjay 6]

Depending on where you are, Uncle Glenn can put a switch on the driver's door which gives you control of the passenger window. Since you have had so many a/c failures, I'm going to predict that you live in southern Ontario, although I can't guess the colour of your car.There are lots of dual cupholder alternatives for the 450's. Including one from the 451.The ac? There are no fixes, other than to use aftermarket refridgerant kits which seem to solve the problem (or at least keep it running longer than the official M-B "fix". I know how you feel, having had many repairs (and expecting another shortly). By the way, using aftermarket may render any "official" fixes down the road out of the question.I've never had any major component replaced in our a/c, but it leaks from somewhere new every year just to keep it interesting. As an aside, the factory extended warranty does not cover tiny rubber "o" rings, just the big clunky bits like the compressor. Pray for a goodwill repair and keep your service book up to date. The whole sordid tale lies in their computer system.

[Alex 21]

Some members have had excellent result with Duracool. Search Duracool to pull up the threads.

[bilgladstone 13]

The 450 cdi's a/c problem is intrinsic. Rigid copper pipes attached to this moving engine are inevitably going to leak at some time. As well, you must cycle the a/c a few times each month in the off-season in order to keep the o-ring seals supple.

The only "permanent" solution that I can envision is to replace the copper pipe with flexible refrigerant pipe and recharge the system with Duracool, Red-Tek, or similar large-molecule gas.

Simply replacing your existing gas with those alternative refrigerants will help mitigate leakage but the vibration problem will still exist; it will just take longer between repairs.

HTH,

Bil

[MikeT 744]

The A/C in my first smart lasted 5.5 years before it needed a repair but my 2006 model's A/C was dead on arrival due to its being an Ontario car It's all better now though. The green one goes in for its first A/C repair this summer.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Mike T

[Squeeakers 0]

Hmm, that's interesting food for thought. Yep you guessed it, southern ontario, Toronto even. From what I can gather, the A/C in mine breaks every time the temp drops below freezing. I just had it repaired less than a month ago. It's already broken again. It's not like I'm using it, but it's certainly a pain in the butt. I'll read the Duracool posts. Doesn't answer my question about the later models though. Are they having the same problem? If not, then it's certainly tempting to ditch this one at the end of my lease and look for a used, new model.

[bilgladstone 13]

Reports on the 451 a/c are that it is more powerful than in the 450, but since it hasn't really started into this year's a/c season, I don't think there have been many reports of seasonal failure yet.

In last summer, there were a number of reports of the system freezing up in humid states, some of which could have been due to low refrigerant, but most of what I've read had the service techs instructing the drivers to avoid this by not putting fan on low + recirculate.

Short answer is, they will probably be better than the 450 but it hasn't been proved out over a few years like our experience with the 450.

We'll likely know much more before July.

HTH,

B

[Squeeakers 0]

So I've read some of the Duracool posts and here's my problem with this. Sounds like a great fix, except that when I take my smart in to have the A/C fixed, it's always a "leak" and it's always a leak severe enough to have them keep the thing over night. Now since it's still an under-warrenty repair, I'm not paying for it, so I'm sure that's what's actually the problem. Is the Duracool really thick enough to stop this problem? I had in my head that it was an expansion problem, that in cold weather the refrigerant/coolant/fluid/whatever-it-is must be expanding enough to burst whatever flimsy seal it is that keeps it in. If that's the case (rather than a low refrigerant problem) then I simply CAN'T keep the car. There's no way I can afford an overnight repair every couple of months. It means that I'm dropping the thing off on their doorstep at the end of the lease and buying something larger (yuck), but it's better than paying for something that they should fix properly.

[bilgladstone 13]

Some people have had great luck with a/c lasting several years without complaint. But MANY people have had the experience you're having. Smart Canada H.O. said they were developing a new repair procedure that would reduce these issues. That was a few years ago and as far as I can tell, what they've done is SFA.If trouble-free working a/c is your deal breaker, my best advice is... buy something else at the end of your lease.B

[Squeeakers 0]

I have to say, that BITES. I shouldn't have to have the same thing fixed 6 times on a car, it's just not right.

[ianjay 6]

Yes, it does bite.The questions are, "Will it affect your next purchase/lease decision?" and "Do you think Mercedes Benz Canada cares?"The answers are, "Yes." and "No."

[MikeT 744]

Those who never ordered A/C in the first place are the ones laughing at those of us who did With 2 cabriolets, in our climate, I would say A/C is not mandatory at all. But the system should have been better engineered in the first place, no doubt. I bet it was an afterthought in the design process.

[Huronlad 186]

It does not look as though they have the bugs worked out quite yet, there is at least one 451 owner in the US complaining of no A/C.

[Squeeakers 0]

That's ridiculous! They've had 5 yrs to sort this problem out!

I wish I could get away with no A/C, but I'm photosensitive. The smart has a lot of glass, but with the UV film on the windows I'm alright so long as I can keep the windows up. A/C was the only add on that I wanted.

I'm sorry for ranting, but I'm just so outraged. I know I'm not paying for it now, but if I'd paid to have my A/C fixed then it should damn well be fixed, not just patched up for a little while.

I wish they'd found some other distributor for the smart, rather than Mercedes. You're right ianjay, they just don't care.

[MikeT 744]

They've had since 1998 to work the bugs out!

[bilgladstone 13]

In temperate European climes, the a/c is not as critical or as vulnerable as other regions. England, Germany, Italy - these are probably the largest sales regions for the smart. [i stand to be corrected on this assumption]

In Canada, with 20,000(?) smart cars out of how-many-hundred-thousand copies world-wide, why would it make sense to re-tool, re-build, or re-source an a/c solution for such a minuscule population of vehicles?

They've had since 2005 to solve this a/c "fail", but there is no solution forthcoming. As with several other design failures like door handles, CCV oil spew, intercooler core holes, leaky thermostats etc, we are on our own to devise solutions for ourselves - at least insofar as the 450 cdi is concerned.

Happily, we have this forum to share ideas and possible remedies.

Bil

[Squeeakers 0]

I believe you that Canadian customers just aren't a priority for them, but I'm pretty sure that other than a fair chunk of Italy, that those countries are at a higher latitude than I am here in Toronto. Most of us here had a ridiculously warm winter, plus with customers south of us in the US having the same problem, I have to think that they must be having problems in Europe too. Of course I could believe that people in Europe may not be as easily sucked into extraneous stuff like air-conditioning.Though I admit you're right, there's a list of things that I've had go wrong, including the door handle problem....and the seatbelts. None of it bothers me as much as the A/C though, probably because I've only had to fix it once so far.

[Alex 21]

Mike T: :D After reading about all the AC problems I DIDN'T get it on mine.Thanks, guinea pigs!

[Alex 21]

Bil: Can't speak for Germany or England, but of the Europe I am familiar with the greatest concentration of smarts I saw was in Paris. Also CDIs are very rare there, mostly it is a city car so gassers.Interesting sidenote, diesel fuel is a lot cheaper than gas, but some European cities have a hefty additional license fee for diesels, (same for automatic transmissions) so people who don't drive a lot are encouraged to get gas engines and reduce the air pollution from a diesel that never warms up properly, those who do drive a lot can benefit from the economy and price of fuel by getting a diesel. I love solutions that allow people to make the right societal choice out of pure self-interest. Moral suasion only works on those who care anyway, heavy-handed regulation breeds resentment, avoidance and enforcement problems, but align the good of society with the logical choice and you can go home early, mission accomplished!

[Speedie 4]

There was an issue with the o-rings on the AC as well - but it is a lot of work to break the connectors open - replace the o-ring properly - then reconnect - a lot of places would rather just put a new load of refrigerant in and put a dye in. Problem is that the leaks at the o-rings are pretty tiny but enough to make the system go flat over a period of time (not like a major leak that the dye would show easily). The new refrigerants have a tiny molecular size compared to the old R-12 - sort of like why a balloon filled with helium goes flat quicker that one filled with air.So you might want to take the car to an independant shop that specializes in auto AC and mention the o-rings - see what they come up with.Cheers,Cameron

[bilgladstone 13]

In my experience, once the non-MB shop does a bit of looking around and discovers you have to lower the engine to service the a/c properly, they pretty much just send you away.Anyone had good luck with particular a/c repair franchises?Bil

[SmarRRT 0]

Hi All,For what it's worth, I've just had my 06 in for the last service before the warranty ran out. MB dealer told me that they are addressing the a/c issues under warranty, but do not yet have the parts (new lines for A/C from MB). They'll call me when they are in. Like many in Canada (Ottawa), my A/C requires work covered under warranty though, each spring. Hoping that the 'fix' works as the warranty is now expired.Hope this helps!Cheers,Smarrrt.

Hi All,I've been reading this forum on and off over the years, but never posted yet. I tried searching the forum for these topics but it wouldn't let me search "AC" or "A/C", just air conditioning. My A/C breaks every year, sometimes several times a year.....it's broken right now even. My lease is up July and I just got the call from Mercedes about the car. I LOVE this car, but I can't go on fixing the air conditioner every couple of months. I'm torn now about keeping the car or ditching it for a newer model.So, my questions are:Is it possible to FIX the A/C problem permanently?And:Do the newer models have this problem? (I heard they even have more than one cup holder and *gasp* power windows from the driver's side)Thanks,Squeeaks

[gordo.bernard 1]

A little off topic. Back in the early 80's BMW was having a problem convincing the engineers that the AC was not powerful enough and they were scoffed at. Some of the engineers had to come to a meeting in Las Vegas but their flight landed in L.A. so they drove a 5 series to Vegas. The car had been set up so that the windows would not go down. Needless to say that by the end of the car trip everyone was on the same page. If there are any smart execs that actually drive one I'm sure that they don't have the hassle associated with dropping it off, getting dye put in, drive it for a week, bring it back to find the leak, take it home while the parts are ordered and then bring it back to get the parts replaced...every year!!! (how green is all of this?)To those of you that chose the option of no AC, I guess most of the rest of us may choose that option in the future. On domestic cars (until just a few years ago in order to be able to advertise cheap base prices) you had to special order a car to get no AC. Quite a contrast to the European market.

Edited May 5, 2010 by gordo.bernard

[Leadwing 565]

I picked up my '05 Pulse in October, 2009. It had A/C that worked (at the dealership). Less than a month later, no air I have been following this thread to pick up some realistic solutions as well. I have often wondered why a company such as MB can make such good full sized cars (I presume the 'real' MB's don't have A/C problems) and not be able to fix this.Slightly off topic, my one-owner 1989 Honda Civic has A/C and has NEVER been serviced. It still works perfectly. Go figure.

[frankie5string 0]

Looks like even though last year I had a number of lines replaced on my AC (and was assured it was fixed for good) earlier this week I tested it and it indeed is not working. However, unlike times in the past, this time the compressor still appears to be engaging... So back in it goes... I also noticed that the huge plastic device covering the entire bottom of the car has begun to hang down near the rear driver-side tire... Looks like a stone hit it and sheared off one of its clamps... Oh well... I guess it could be a whole lot worse - I haven't had any major issues with the smart... but boy taking it in to get "repaired" every spring (often when doing my Winter/Summer tire change) is a bit of a folly to say the least.