Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Meir

Questions about Smart 450 CDI, before buying.

47 posts in this topic

For all intents and purposes, 185 is not a "wide" tire. A good-quality 175 or 185 winter tire (Nokian or Blizzak for example) will yield better all-around winter performance than a so-so 145 tire (Conti, Hankook). Honestly, how many times have you driven in "deep snow" since you've owned your smart? I live in the suburbs of a large city that gets a LOT of snow generally, and I can count on one hand over three winters how many times I've been forced to drive in more than 10 cm of snow. No way in Hades I'd give up on traction in all other conditions, as well as overall ride and handling, just to have a questionable amount of extra "bite" in deep snow a couple of times a year.

Edited by SameGuy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For all intents and purposes, 185 is not a "wide" tire. A good-quality 175 or 185 winter tire (Nokian or Blizzak for example) will yield better all-around winter performance than a so-so 145 tire (Conti, Hankook).

Luckily the Blizzak comes in a 145 tire. I have 15,000 happy kilometers (with and without working TCS, ABS, ESP) on my narrow WS-60 snows and won't go back. Rally cars run narrower not wider tires in the snow and on ice, must be some good reason for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, maybe you drive at extra-legal speeds on back roads with deep, un-plowed snow a lot. Rally cars also have advanced AWD, locking diffs, 400+ bhp engines, huge studs, long-travel suspensions, roll cages, manual transmissions, etc. etc. etc. At normal speeds, even in harsh conditions, narrower tires would be of limited benefit. In all other conditions, they are more of a drawback. Again, I wouldn't give up a wider tire's benefits -- in all conditions other than deep snow -- for the couple of times a year I'm forced to commute in snow more than 10 cm deep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At normal speeds, even in harsh conditions, narrower tires would be of limited benefit. In all other conditions, they are more of a drawback. Again, I wouldn't give up a wider tire's benefits -- in all conditions other than deep snow -- for the couple of times a year I'm forced to commute in snow more than 10 cm deep.

Reading this makes me remember my childhood when 4x4's with wide tires would get stuck in parking lots after a skiff of snow fell and our Jimmy with smaller, narrow tires would go through 2 feet of snow without much issue.Transports Quebec also disagrees with you. Edited by Huronlad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone was disagreeing with anyone, as much as people were expressing their preferences.Tires are for a car like shoes are for a person. I know you've heard the cliche before. Anyone can dance OK in their Walmart shoes, but it is much more enjoyable in dedicated dance shoes (this goes for any sport). You can wear cheap shoes all day long but when I wear my best shoes (which are also my most expensive), I know it. My feet feel great and I feel more comfortable and confident with these shoes on...ask any woman for the truth on that. You can use work boots to ride on your bike or bicycle but the proper footwear makes a HUGE difference.Tires are the same as shoes...buy the best that you can afford without exceeding your needs or abilities, and enjoy them.BTW, part of the skinny tire argument is substantiated by the increase of traction because of more PSI being transmitted to the tread's contact patch and thus the road. But lets say that the skinny tires transmit 10% more weight per square inch to the road. Since the smart weighs about 800 kg, then bringing along a passenger adds about 10% extra weight per square inch as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't mean to hijack thread this onto tires... But when talking tire width remember the smart is a very small car, so yeah, 175 or 185 could be considered "wide".It's not just deep snow, in many poor traction conditions narrow tires can be better. Many different conditions exist. On balance I do think a fairly narrow high quality winter tire yields overall benefits. It's not as simple as you might think, also: Sameguy, don't set up a strawman only to demolish it. I didn't say a crappy narrow tire is better than a wider good one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading this makes me remember my childhood when 4x4's with wide tires would get stuck in parking lots after a skiff of snow fell and our Jimmy with smaller, narrow tires would go through 2 feet of snow without much issue.Transports Quebec also disagrees with you.

I think you skipped almost everything I wrote....I didn't say that narrow tires being better in deep snow is factually incorrect; rather, I said that for the few times having four narrow tires would be of benefit, I'd be compromising my safety and my car's ride and handling for most of the rest of the winter. I also pointed out -- and now this is the third time -- that 175 or 185 tires are in NO WAY "wide." Did your car really "float" on the 175 snow tires you had on before? I'd question a fortwo winter tire's tread pattern, depth and compound before blaming its width for traction problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CAR magazine tested a smart fortwo back about 5 years ago, in Sweden, on 175/195 snowies mounted on strikelines. They weren't complaining, and it was a winter test of the car on snow covered roads, including an ice drive on a lake.Given the low ground clearance on the smart, I am not convinced that slicing through the snow would be advantageous in anything more than 10 cm of depth, which is nothing. And, given the car's propensity to be blown about by crosswinds and motorway traffic, plus get sucked into ruts on icy unploughed roads, the narrowest I'd ever care to go is the 145/175 combo for normal use in winter, in coastal BC, or the West Kootenays where I used to live (which got 5 m of snow per year).

Edited by Mike T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you skipped almost everything I wrote....

I have read everything and you keep coming back to your conclusion that the narrow tire setup is somehow dangerous. 30,000 km of my own personal experience says otherwise, 15,000 km on OE sized Continental winter tires and 15,000 km on 145 Blizzak WS-60. The 145 track better through snow covered roads, especially snow drifted sections. The 145's all around handle no differently in heavy winds than the Continentals did. The 145 get much better traction in fresh powdery snow and on ice. I can plow through a foot of fresh snow with no issue, the Continentals nearly had me stuck on several occasions in only an inch or two of snow due to the TC kicking in. The traction control light seldom comes on even plowing through snow drifts because I do not have wider rear tires acting like sea anchors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And once more: your better traction has to do with the Blizzak WS-60 being a much better winter tire than the generally awful Conti WinterContact (which sucks in most conditions). Do you have any experience with 175-sized Blizzak WS-60s in back?Through three winters in my smart -- on those sucky Contis -- I've been stuck due to deep snow exactly once, and that was because all four wheels got lifted off the ground. Narrower rear tires would not have helped. There was 32 cm of fresh snow on the ground and I was able to motorboat all the way home from work just fine, right until it was time to slow down and turn into my driveway. I've also had just two lurid moments on the highway, both times having been sucked into ruts in deep car snot during a snow storm. Narrower tires would not have helped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geeez!!!!! Give it a break. All of you have your own views on the tire thing and no one seems willing to bend or see the other's views. Let's just say "different strokes for different folks" and leave it at that. The original poster was looking for suggestions, and we have all contrubuted to that post. It's time to let Meir make up his own mind on which direction to go in now concerning tires.

Edited by Leadwing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mind discussion about tires... Keep on going...I still don't know about smart... it seems to be a very strange car. The more I learn about technical side the more it scares me...It has too much of "oooo if you do it wrong car will die..." kind of thing. Basically I am trying to say that it seems like the car can't take much of abuse... it has to be taken care of very well in order to last... I guess I am not that kind of person who wants to baby it and throw money at it any time it "sneezes". Sorry please don't judge me too hard... I am just spoiled with my current car...However I saw smart the other day it makes me smile :D .... I am basically always trying to make a rational decision and smart in that sense more of a feeling decision... at least that's way I see it. I was thinking the other day... that may be if I can find smart for $5000 it can be an option but as I understand it might be a very poor choice, car might be in a poor condition and I will buy just a bag of issues...Anyhow I am still thinking and it seems like am I am leaning towards JP ( Japanese ) cars... But so far can't find anything "unique"... May be Nissan Cube or Mazda miata ( don't really like roadsters :( )... may be Toyota IQ... The other day I was looking at Toyota AE86 Trueno ( Corolla ) but it is almost impossible to find in original ( without mods ) condition... Anyways... P.S: Please don't hesitate to continue tire discussion ( I am curious ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get a Japanese car; from your comments it is clear that a smart is not for you. Go buy one now, you hear?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get a Japanese car; from your comments it is clear that a smart is not for you. Go buy one now, you hear?

Thanks Mike T, I think I will take your advice... it seems like patience is your virtue. P.S: By the way while you at it why don't you remove my account all together. It seems like my "throwing of ideas" irritate you a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5. With warranty this isn't much of a problem. Press the button on the LH side of the dash binnacle twice in quick succession to see the service information appear in the LCD screen. If any number is negative, DO NOT buy the car, it has been mistreated. These cars will not tolerate skipped oil changes.

I know this thread is 3 years old, so forgive me for bringing it to life!When I start my car, for the first 10 secs or so the number -600 is flashing, so that's a good thing right? LOLI posted last year that when I got the car and pumped out the old oil, it had a few more litres than it shouldhave and was surprised the engine did not blow. I think these little cars area somewhat tougher than manypeople think they are. Time will tell on ours I guess. Edited by smartme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-600 means it's 600 km (or maybe 600 days!) overdue for service! You should zero the service indicator after a service (there are threads describing how to do this).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-600 means it's 600 km (or maybe 600 days!) overdue for service! You should zero the service indicator after a service (there are threads describing how to do this).

Hmm, still not so nice to see it displayed on there. Will start searching now for that link, thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

    Chatbox
    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More