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neilt6

Intermittent Fuel Pump

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Is that price for an OEM replacement battery!? Get a spiral cell AGM battery like this one from CTC for under $200 and install it yourself - easy to do! Bil :sun:

No, an Optima Red Top, although the OEM one can't be much different, seems to be the way most stuff is with these cars. They didn't carry the Optima's anymore due to quality issues they'd been having so dad got a $300 Full River HC65/ST AGM. It's not cylindrical like the Optima, but it has 825CCA. Edited by neilt6

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I just had my battery replaced at M-B. The smartie was acting funny so we decided to get M-B to have a look at it before we made the 3hr drive home. Here's the bill breakdown:- Battery and electrical system check = $24.00- OEM battery $127.35- Labor - $72.00- Installation of some hubcaps my wife purchased (the little black triangle ones that go behind the lug bolts) - $12- Enviro fee - $5.40Total after taxes = $269.64 Chris

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I just had my battery replaced at M-B. The smartie was acting funny so we decided to get M-B to have a look at it before we made the 3hr drive home. Here's the bill breakdown:- Battery and electrical system check = $24.00- OEM battery $127.35- Labor - $72.00- Installation of some hubcaps my wife purchased (the little black triangle ones that go behind the lug bolts) - $12- Enviro fee - $5.40Total after taxes = $269.64 Chris

Wow, seeing this I don't feel bad about my $300 battery anymore. I'd much rather have an 825CCA AGM battery than another crappy unsealed check-the-water-or-else ~400CCA smart one... I'll keep you guys posted on how this one performs after I've used it for a while, it's made in the U.S. so it might end up being better than those Optima's. To be fair, it more directly competes with the Yellow Top since it's a dual purpose deep cycle.

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Got the starter and alternator replaced last Friday. I didn't see the bill, but I heard it was around $1600 plus $300 for the new battery. So it's running again, and starting a lot quieter although I'm sad to report it still doesn't want to start right around -20C. It turns over significantly faster but just doesn't fire... I've experimented with forcing the pump to run using the workaround, or not running it at all and just running the glowplugs once and it seem doesn't make a difference, it either starts immediately or not at all (And in the case of not at all, it usually goes of 4 or 5 full tries). The other day I had to try starting it 3 or 4 full tries before it finally started since it had not been plugged in, and even then it stalled and had to be restarted 3 more times before it stayed running. This was at only -19C. I've resorted to carrying around an 88Ah UPS battery and a 600W inverter just to get it going if I can't plug in. What's more frustrating is that I paid the extra money to park in the airport parkade with power at NAIT and as of yet they haven't gotten it to work. >:( Maybe the previous owner ran biodiesel in it and the fuel system's all full of plastic...

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I really doubt biodiesel has anything to do with it. WHere have you heard that biodiesel causes the problems you describe? That is the first time I've heard it; biodiesel is a solvent and burns cleaner than petroleum diesel. It strips out most of the gum and varnish that petro diesel leaves behind. The reason fuel filters clog when switching to biodiesel is because of its cleaning properties.

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I really doubt biodiesel has anything to do with it. WHere have you heard that biodiesel causes the problems you describe? That is the first time I've heard it; biodiesel is a solvent and burns cleaner than petroleum diesel. It strips out most of the gum and varnish that petro diesel leaves behind. The reason fuel filters clog when switching to biodiesel is because of its cleaning properties.

This guy raises a valid point. The CDI fuel systems run hotter than the older ones, hence the less thermally stable biodiesel plasticizes in fuel system components. I would doubt that would be a temperature sensitive thing though...http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211-e-cla...-mysteries.html

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Having run commercially made biodiesel extensively, I have not encountered the "full of plastic" effect. Sounds more full of something, and you could probably consider "it" to have "plastic" qualities, but don't blame biodiesel.My car ran more smoothly on biodiesel and I miss being able to buy it now. Extreme cold weather is hard on most cars and diesels are no exception.Ian

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Having run commercially made biodiesel extensively, I have not encountered the "full of plastic" effect. Sounds more full of something, and you could probably consider "it" to have "plastic" qualities, but don't blame biodiesel.My car ran more smoothly on biodiesel and I miss being able to buy it now. Extreme cold weather is hard on most cars and diesels are no exception.Ian

Interesting... I suppose it's possible the Smart CDI's don't run hot enough compared to some others...

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Interesting... I suppose it's possible the Smart CDI's don't run hot enough compared to some others...

Hi, I'm pretty new to the site but I've read about your starting (in cold weather) problems and I'm wondering if you ever got the problem resolved? I've had exactly the same symptoms after having my glow plugs replaced - now I can't start the car unless it has had the block heater plugged in. Today, at -35C, it won't start at all. I'm going to have it towed to a repair shop and see if they can diagnose the problems since MB didn't seem to be able to (they replaced the battery).

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Diesels are notoriously hard to start when it's really cold. At -35C there is no surprise it won't. As the engine ages the minimum temperature you can start it at rises. That's what block heaters are for! A good battery and good glowplugs help, but you will still have a temperature at which it just can't get the air hot enough to ignite the diesel.No spark plugs, remember.

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Hi, I'm pretty new to the site but I've read about your starting (in cold weather) problems and I'm wondering if you ever got the problem resolved? I've had exactly the same symptoms after having my glow plugs replaced - now I can't start the car unless it has had the block heater plugged in. Today, at -35C, it won't start at all. I'm going to have it towed to a repair shop and see if they can diagnose the problems since MB didn't seem to be able to (they replaced the battery).

Nope, never figured it out. Although mine will start no problem at -35C with the block heater. I've had success at -25C with just 45 minutes on the block heater, let alone the 3 hours MB recommends. I carry around a 100AH UPS battery and a 600w inverter for emergencies. The OEM heater draws about 350w so it's not too hard to run it off a battery.

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Diesels are notoriously hard to start when it's really cold. At -35C there is no surprise it won't. As the engine ages the minimum temperature you can start it at rises. That's what block heaters are for! A good battery and good glowplugs help, but you will still have a temperature at which it just can't get the air hot enough to ignite the diesel.No spark plugs, remember.

Yeh, the -35C will be a problem for almost any vehicle.My problem is that since I've had the new glow plugs put in I can't start the car unless I plug it in (an oil pan heater). I'm wondering if there are issues out there with the glow plug replacement that can cause my problem. Previously I was able to start the car at -15C without plugging it in. Even when the #2 glow plug went I could still start the car at -15C. I believe the original glow plugs and the new ones are both metal tipped so there shouldn't be to much fear (at a MB outfit) that pieces would fall into the chamber and wreck the compression. Anyway, I'm getting the compression checked today. Maybe there's other problems that just coincided with the glow plug change but it's hard to fathom. I also do have a new battery since the glow plugs were changed.

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Yeh, the -35C will be a problem for almost any vehicle.My problem is that since I've had the new glow plugs put in I can't start the car unless I plug it in (an oil pan heater). I'm wondering if there are issues out there with the glow plug replacement that can cause my problem. Previously I was able to start the car at -15C without plugging it in. Even when the #2 glow plug went I could still start the car at -15C. I believe the original glow plugs and the new ones are both metal tipped so there shouldn't be to much fear (at a MB outfit) that pieces would fall into the chamber and wreck the compression. Anyway, I'm getting the compression checked today. Maybe there's other problems that just coincided with the glow plug change but it's hard to fathom. I also do have a new battery since the glow plugs were changed.

You ought to read my thread on changing glow plugs and measuring compression.The new plugs may get damaged if glow plug bores are not reamed.

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Thanks Tolsen. I have read your thread and that was one reason I went to a MB dealership to have the plugs changed out.So my compression checked out at 300 psi with 5 cranks and 340 psi with 7 cranks. That was for each cylinder. The shop performing this got a number back from MB that the pressure should be 350 psi but didn't let them know at how many cranks.Glow plugs are working fine, voltage is good and all are glowing when removed and tested. The only problem this shop could find is that the injectors seemed to be partially fouled. They added some cleaners to the fuel and ran the car for awhile. Things seem better this morning in that the car started at -10C without being plugged in.I'm a little leary of putting additives in with the deisel fuel all the time. I'll search for threads reagarding this. Does anyone have thoughts on fuel additives? Should they only be used in the winter months? The stuff they added was STANADYNE performance formula and STANADYNE Lubrication formula (50:50 mix for a total of 200 ml to a tank of deisel).Also, the shop didn't have great things to say about the oil that was last used by MB a month ago - Mobil-1 5W40. Any thoughts on oils and fuel brands out there?Thanks again for any thoughts. I've followed the manual recommendations for top-up oils and I've used Mohawk deisel with some Shell V-power deilsel thrown in once in awhile. All oil changes were done religously at MB otherwise.Cheers! Mark

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@ neilt6: Do you have find your problem? I tink that I have the same on mine. <_< Sometimes I turn the key, the starter turn but the engine dont start. I try again and I realise that I dont understant any noise from the fuel pump (In the fuel tank under passanger floor). So, but I juste have to kick 3-4 with my foot under the SAM box and the fuel pump run!! I think the fuel pump relay, fuel pump relay harness or SAM box are the problem. If it's the SAM box, I'm very sad because it' very expensive to replace!! 1500$ for the part, 300$ of labor, 165$ for programming etc... etc... Unfortunately, I dont have any "star diagnosis scan tool" to diagnostic to diagnose my problem or reflash my sam box. :( So... what's happen with your car neilt6??? Do you have fixe it?Thanks!Dom

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@ neilt6: Do you have find your problem? I tink that I have the same on mine. <_< Sometimes I turn the key, the starter turn but the engine dont start. I try again and I realise that I dont understant any noise from the fuel pump (In the fuel tank under passanger floor). So, but I juste have to kick 3-4 with my foot under the SAM box and the fuel pump run!! I think the fuel pump relay, fuel pump relay harness or SAM box are the problem. If it's the SAM box, I'm very sad because it' very expensive to replace!! 1500$ for the part, 300$ of labor, 165$ for programming etc... etc... Unfortunately, I dont have any "star diagnosis scan tool" to diagnostic to diagnose my problem or reflash my sam box. :( So... what's happen with your car neilt6??? Do you have fixe it?Thanks!Dom

Check the removable connector on the SAM that feeds the electric fuel pump.(brown multipin connector with one wire that is red and heavier gauge than others - some pictures on this site or one of the other sites) It is notorious for overheating - the wire is often black near the connector- and becomes a source of intermittent connection. This would explain why kicking that area causes the pump to work. The connector will eventually fail completely leaving you stranded and may damage the pin badly enough to wreck the SAM.Mercedes sells a replacement wire harness section to repair the problem because it is so common. John Edited by shadejo

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Mercedes sells a replacement wire harness section to repair the problem because it is so common.

Mercedes should fit that repair harness at their cost since problem is poor design.

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Actually this one....http://shop.flyingtiger.ca/index.php?p=pro...04&parent=0Note it is actually possible to disassemble the connector and replace only the plastic housing and fuel pump connector if you don't want to splice in the whole new connector and all the wires. It does however require patience and care to make sure each connector is put back in place in the connector block correctly. Makes for a neater job though with only the fuel pump wire needing to be spliced in.John Edited by shadejo

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Came across five 450 in one month with no start. All cars cranks with no fire. All involve intermittent fuel transfer pump cause by SAM, wire harness, or fuel pump relay. Is this becoming a norm at this day and age?

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Mine did something simialr to this when I damaged the grounds above the intercooler fan, these wires get corroded just like the main engine ground, and at least one of them is for the fuel pump, I would suggest checking these out, there are 5 or 6 wires going to one ring teminal to a stud above the fan, if there is a poor connetion the car won't start, I wound up cutting these wires back to good wire, and soldering new pigtails, with indivdual ring terminals on them. I will post some pics when I get home.

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Im having a problem with the fuel pump while driving. Its happened twice so far, driving at 110km/hr and all of a suddne engine cuts out. Engine light comes on, all electrical still on and working. Manage to pull over to the side of the road. wait a bit, try to restart the car, it coughs and spits and tries to catch but just conks out. Sit and wait some more, finally starts and I make it home. As this happened on our previous smart car, we checked the fuel pump connection and the wires were loose. A few days later, the same scenario happens. Engine light turned off on its own the next day, and everything is running fine. (Didnt touch anything on it the second time around).

Want to know if it could be time to change the fuel pump (this car has 102,000km on it, the engine died and car sat for about 3 years before we purchased it from previous owner. We rebuilt the engine, all the cylinders have correct pressure, brand new alternator. Would you replace the fuel pump before trying anything else?

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Let us know if you get this figured out. Mine is also shutting down at speed. Seems to happen under load usually going up hill with my foot in it. Sets a code P0087 rail pressure low. I spoke to Glenn about it and he doesn't remember seeing this problem before and when I get some time I'll take it to him and we will figure it out. When it quits pull over and shut it off. If you are not on the highway you can hear a click from the fuse box area when it resets. Glenn says wait for the click( maybe 40 seconds after shutting off) plus 5 seconds and then restart.

Nigel

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I ran into P0087 before the high pressure seals were shot in my case. Another one was the fuel pressure regulator was intermittently dying.

Edited by dmoonen

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