Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
smart142

Engine repair

20 posts in this topic

Some of you will know that last July I drove to Kansas city to pick up a very low mileage engine.....my smart adventure.

In November I finally swapped out the engine.

Recently I have started to work on repairing Gina's old engine.

Today I learned that it was the exhaust valve hydraulic lifter that failed. I spoke to the techs at the dealer and they said that they have never seen this problem before. They figure the exhaust valve stuck or the valve spring broke to cause the lifter to be damaged.

I'm thinking that I will be taking the head to a machine shop so that it can be assessed and repaired.

Here's some photos. The broken lifter and the cylinder (looks good)

post-35-1297311294_thumb.jpg

post-35-1297311325_thumb.jpg

post-35-1297311357_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hard to say 100% from the photo but the ridge at the top of the bore is minimal and the bore looks good so you should be good for a few miles yet on the short block. Watch for the bore of the lifter being out of whack from the lifter being stuck and make sure you get all the crud out of the engine (lots of flushing!). The lifters in the smart are very critical in which way they go in (i.e. the oil hole has to face the gallery) - if the factory guy got distracted - well that might be the source of the issue - other issue with lifters is they sometimes gum up but you would have seen that in the rest of the lifters. Then again once in a while mechanical bits just go to sh!ts. If the valve stuck you will see a bent stem usually - check by rolling it on a flat surface. Check the guide for damage and for wear as well. Broken valve springs are usually pretty obvious.Check your cam surface really carefully too - it doesn't take much abuse to ruin it - and invest in some cam moly lube grease at an auto store for the rebuild - cams really suffer on initial start up after a rebuild.Cheers,Cameron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if you have a machine shop that you deal with or not, but I told my father inlaw about people saying these engines are not rebuildable. He made this statement to a machine shop he knows very well and they said that is completely absurd to make that statement but they would be more than happy to have a look when mine fails. They are fairly local, well priced, and can pretty work on anything from a 700whp custom built turbo GM V6 to farm equipment and tranport diesels. They are well known for working on special projects like these

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always looking for a decent open-minded machine shop. the ones I deal with in Ottawa have diappeared or been staffed by people who don't want to touch anything they are not familiar with....Care to let us all in on the name of the place !John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For common items it is often cheaper to buy a new "not made in america" assembly than it is to have the machining done - reality that we actually get paid decent wages compared to a lot of places and that automation is so widely used. Unfortunate side of it is that a lot of local machine shops have folded and the folks with great amounts of knowledge have gone with them. Some engines demand the use of machine shops as parts are no longer available and alternate engines are not an option (i.e. antique marine engines, odd ball foreign cars, married engine/functional components).With the parts for smarts being expensive and not that available there might be enough of a margin to make it worth will for a machine shop to look at rebuilding components. Most heads can be re-guided, surfaced, welded, valve seats replaced and other tricks. I know when Dad and I would do rebuilds we would get the machine shop to improve on the standard offerings with things like bronze guides, positive valve seals, three angle valve jobs and we would usually finish up with some port blending and smoothing and hand lapping the valves into place. Makes a world of difference when done right.Please keep us up to date on the progress!Cheers,Cameron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Made some good progress last week!On Monday I stripped everything off the cylinder head. Everything came off cleanly except one of the glow plugs. At the end of the day I took it to a local machine shop that was only a couple of k's away.Of course they had never worked on a smart engine (the dealer sends their work to the MB machine shop in Toronto), but were more than willing to look at it.By Wednesday they had got the glow plug out, ''a bitch of a job!'', it had to be drilled out- broke in 3 places. They said the head was fine and all the remaining valves were good.I had a new replacement exhaust valve, so I left it with them to lap and install. They recommended that all the hydraulic lifters be replaced. (something I could easily do myself)Told me that everything would be ready by Friday. So on Friday I picked up the head and the charge was only $100. I love their honesty!!!! Will definately be taking all of my business there!Have got the hydraulic lifters on order and decided to replace all the rocker arms as well.Will start the reassembly later this week.Looks like it was only the exhaust hydraulic lifter that failed, causing damage to the rocker arm and mushrooming the top of that exhaust valve.Got sidetracked because on Wednesday I bought another smart car. A 2006 Passion coupe with 219,000 kms (needs brakes, ball joints, reluctor ring, injector, intercooler) :spot:

post-35-1298314367_thumb.jpg

post-35-1298314398_thumb.jpg

post-35-1298314515_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't see how the lifter could have caused this damage. It takes every little to go wrong with a turbo diesel to overheat the exhaust valves . The valve probable stuck even if only temporary from over heating and or lack of oil mushrooming of the top of that exhaust valve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A failed lifter will cause that kind of damage. With the clearance caused by the lifter failure the rocker is already moving at full speed when it contacts the valve, and quite the hammer effect ensues. 2000 times a minute. Rockers break, valves mushroom, engine goes BOOM! Change your oil! And cross your fingers.Glenn: I assume you checked the bore for the lifter very carefully, and it is OK?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glenn, where are you sourcing the rebuild parts?As has been discussed here before, the dealerships do not rebuild engines. West Island has one in there now that swallowed its EGR gasket and trashed the engine. Neighbour didn't let on, but I suspect this happened after a dealership-replaced EGR, and now they have to figure out how to rebuild the customer's engine at the lowest cost. He said he was checking EPC today and other than valves, very little is available for a rebuild. Midtown is unable to help, either, and their usual machine shop said the parts are unavailable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It must be the OEM suppliers. It has always been possible to get aftermarket OEM parts if you know where to look.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the difference between working inside the MB/smart supply channel and working outside "the corporation".B :sun:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glenn, where are you sourcing the rebuild parts?

Right from the dealer. All oemintake valve- $20.30Exhaust valve- $30.45hydraulic lifter- $18.70rocker arm- $10.47head gasket- $55.00valve spring- $6.56valve collar- $2.40I thought all the parts were reasonably priced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is right in the ball park with mainstream type engine parts and a heck of a lot less than I would have guessed. From what I understand you can get the head assembly as well as long blocks - and some dealerships (no names mentioned) are pretty good at "working outside the box" when it is not a warranty job.Make sure you get some camshaft lube for the followers - makes a world of difference whent the engine gets going for the first time. Cheers,Cameron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to Neighbour, pistons aren't in the EPC for Canada. But like I said, I don't know the full story so it may be that they don't want to order a long block.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's right! They don't sell pistons.I found a company in Germany that does....ES-CO Car-Parts(ebay)......Smart Motor Kolben Kolbensatz 0.8 Fortwo CDI Diesel STD.............259 eurosThat's over $100 per piston

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$100 is not bad for diesel pistons - which are probably forged rather than cast - try buying outboard parts if you want sticker shock.Cheers,Cameron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's right! They don't sell pistons.I found a company in Germany that does....ES-CO Car-Parts(ebay)......Smart Motor Kolben Kolbensatz 0.8 Fortwo CDI Diesel STD.............259 eurosThat's over $100 per piston

Here's another site with over sized pistons . The price is for one piston with rings. It appears to be a smart dealer so maybe they can get any internal engine parts there as well.http://cgi.ebay.de/Smart-CDI-Kolben-1-Uber...6r#ht_776wt_905http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://...eAoiq8AaJxqWdCw Edited by gordo.bernard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to be careful of oversized pistons in diesel - a little is okay but a lot (more than .010") raises the compression ration and may result in a big bang followed by a few more pieces than when the engine went together. As well in looking at the pictures of the block there is probably not a lot of meat to bore out.Cheers,Cameron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

    Chatbox
    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More