Alternator not charging

[CANMAN 23]

But since the carpet is up, it wouldn't hurt to clean the battery to chasis ground as well.While you are in there, if cleaning the grounds do not fix the problem, with the power off try disconnecting the "Canada box". It's the little (5x5 in) black box bolted to the firewall in front of and to the right of the battery. Unless your car has not been modded by Mercedes, it used to sit in beside the battery.From what I understand this box controls the lighting to meet Canadian specs, and I also think it operates the little cluster of warning lights between the r.p.m. and clock pods.Seeing as your main problem seems to be flickering lights and the Canada box controls the lights..........CANMAN

[ianjay 6]

Unfortunately, I fell off a roof in June and really can't get under the car. Bending over is still almost impossible. I still have a large haematoma which prevents me from lying on my back. Even washing the car is problematic and we all know how easy it is to clean.I can only assume that the undercar wiring was checked while Mercedes had it for over three weeks. I specifically asked if this might be a problem related to corrosion as this is an Ontario car. They assured me than everything had been checked and was fine.I've written a final letter to the Service Manager. I am hoping that they accept that the condition is not normal and fix the car.I appreciate all the input from various members. When I bought the car I promised to have all servicing done by M-B. Apart from two little mods by Uncle Glenn, it is stock, with all services up to date and complete records. I've kept the car as nicely as I could, assuming that if we kept the car, proper servicing and clean appearance would help us after the warranties expired. I put them under no time pressure to fix the problem and have been extremely cordial about the whole thing.I expected to keep the car - bought a complete set of replacement panels, a second set of pulse alloys. I cannot sell the car in good conscience because I am an ethical person.

[CANMAN 23]

Ian,No need to get under the car, I am referring to inside the car, the battery ground wire and the Canada Box near it.If you are driving near Belleville I would be happy to have a look at it for you.Or better yet join us ( the Loyalist Smartys ) for our Westport trip on Saturday 06 August where you can see other cdi smarts and compare.CANMAN

[ianjay 6]

I will look at the Canada box tonight. They supposedly tried a second box, but I did notice that the Canada box seems to be held to the firewall with only one small bolt with a rubber insulator. Seemed kind of wiggly to me but since Mercedes had just been looking at it, I didn't think to ask if this was normal.Does your box have more than one mounting point? Maybe I should run another ground from the single mount to the chassis.It is wavering around 13.7/8 on the highway with a/c, radio, and full lights on (I bought a large multi meter so I can see the display while driving).

[CANMAN 23]

Ian,On my car it is also held in place with just one bolt and nut, just a tiny bit wiggly.I suggest that you unplug the connector and then check your pulsating lights, I don't recommend taking it for a test drive because you probably won't have any lights.Let us know how you make out.CANMAN

[ianjay 6]

I'm going to the garage.

[ianjay 6]

I uplugged the e-box. It was a little sticky, but both connectors released. The car started, and the lights worked when manually switched. With less lights running, I'm getting over 14V at the battery with engine running. No change. Even the interior light begins to flicker as revs raise. Seems to be less stable voltage wise with the e-box disconnected, engine at idle.Reconnecting the e-box, the reverse is true. Stable lights at idle, flickering at increased revs.I guess I'll try a new battery next. I'm not going to waste extra money on a fancy battery, but will stick to oem, just in case MB decides to take the car again.The service manager is on holiday until 2 August.

[CANMAN 23]

Darn,I was hoping that would have helped.The only thing I can think of which would cause the flickering to change frequency with r.p.m. is the alternator.But you said that Mercedes already changed it.Suspicious that the radio presets were still there and you didn't have to input the code.If you are ever driving by Belleville, I would be happy to take a look at it for you.CANMAN

[ianjay 6]

Wish I could keep my comments to "darn"!I've got the new battery and was about to plop it in, only to discover that the radio code card which has always been with the owner's manual case (in a zippered smart bag no less) is missing.I think I'll wait until I can send 12V into the car through the lighter while I quickly make the battery change. I think I may have a battery booster that connects this way. Worst case scenario - no radio for the long weekend.I'm going to have my daughter crawl under and check the engine to body ground connection, and then I guess it will be off to London to have Uncle Glenn replace the alternator.Thanks for your offer - I don't think the car would make it that far - although, now that I have two batteries...

[bilgladstone 13]

Doesn't the car have to be switched on for the lighter socket to be energized/connected? Or have you done the non-switched lighter socket mod?B

[Some Guy 0]

The only thing I can think of which would cause the flickering to change frequency with r.p.m. is the alternator.

Fuel injectors would be another thing. My aftermarket radio picks up noise from the injectors. Haven't spent much time diagnosing it yet 'cause I have further audio upgrades planned anyway, but my assumption is that it's probably normal for the injectors to make quite a bit of clicky-clicky electrical noise, and I an iffy connection somewhere the is letting that noise contaminate the ground. Probably the engine ground strap, since it is a known common problem area, and seems to be a bit more noticeable immediately after car wash.(My radio also puts out a faint high-frequency whine when the hill-holder is keeping brakes on. That, of course, doesn't vary with rpm - but again I suspect I have an iffy ground somewhere.)Edit: I guess one way to test would be to lift your foot and coast down a long steep hill. That will cut the fuel and then you can see if the flickering continues or not. Edited July 29, 2011 by Some Guy

[MikeT 744]

The hill holder in both my cars does make noise on AM though I never hear it on FM, ipod or CD.

[Some Guy 0]

In my case, it is actually electrical noise getting into the deck's amplifier. Not RF interference being picked up by the AM/FM receiver. It happens even on CD, volume fully down, antenna unplugged.But the fact that you can pick it up a bit via RF receiver does seem to support my suspicion that our cars probably have some electrical noise on the wire even as a "normal" condition. Which means good grounding everywhere is absolutely essential. Otherwise, the noise can manifest itself as clicky speakers...... or possibly as flickery lights???

[ianjay 6]

Found the radio code and changed the battery with the new one from M-B. Sitting on the garage floor, the two year old battery was giving 12.56V. In the car, I could never get a proper reading as the voltage kept dropping after the engine was switched off.Took it for a little run up the DVP and back to the garage. Lights are not flickering now. I will drive it on the highway this weekend and we'll see where we are on Tuesday.After having the car for almost three weeks, I guess nobody tried actually switching the battery with a new one. With my back screwed up, it was no picnic and I couldn't get the foam block of death back completely ( of course, neither had M-B for that matter ).I guess the problem kept getting shifted to someone else and believing that the flickering was normal for a smart, no one person ever did a thorough check. I'll know after a couple of hundred kms.

[MikeT 744]

SWEET! I think you have it.

[CANMAN 23]

Interesting,My wife's ford focus was acting up last week, the red brake warning light and the yellow abs warning light and the traction control light were all coming on simultaneously ( that gets your attention) as well as intermittent alternator warning light and engine misfire when driving with max AC and headlights and radio.A new battery fixed it as well.All the computers in modern cars are very fickle when it comes to battery voltage.CANMAN

[ianjay 6]

Couple of hundred kms later.Flickering lights are back. Noticed it as soon as I drove it in the dark. Don't know how soon it started, but I guess we now move to the replace-the-alternator option.My last communication with the service manager has resulted in no action on their part.Funny about the electric car discussion elsewhere on the board. I wouldn't touch one, given that M-B can't fix electrical issues on fully serviced, but off-warranty cars.Of course, all they want to do is lease the e-cars, so I guess sticking it to them at the end of a lease might bring me satisfaction.But I'm not going to go there.

[CANMAN 23]

Ian,I have a set of lowering bolts for the subframe.Having read of the difficulties experienced by people trying to replace the alternator through the wheel well, I would suggest it may be easier to lower the engine ( and you can do T.K.'s restrictor plug mod at the same time).Anyway if you want to drive to Madoc (30 km North of Belleville) one weekend I would be happy to give you a hand.CANMAN

[ianjay 6]

Thanks CANMAN. The service manager replied that the matter has been returned to Germany for consideration. They earlier decided it was a symptom of all smarts, but we will give them another chance to come up with another explanation and hopefully, the remedy.What is most galling is this insistence that all 450 smarts have pulsing lights when in fact, mine seems to be the only one I can find.My wife and I are disappointed. We kind of thought we might keep the car and I bought a complete refresh kit in case I ever wanted to redo the panels and another set of pulse alloys in case one got damaged.So I think I'll wait a bit and keep riding the bicycle.

[MikeT 744]

Let me know if you want to unload that refresh kit! and I hope it's not necessary for you to sell the kit, and this all gets sorted out.

[ianjay 6]

I have just heard back (again) from Mercedes in Germany. The flickering is "normal" for a 450 smart. So all you weirdos out there with non flickering lights should report to your nearest M-B dealer to get them to make your car normal.Don't worry about the lights being an important safety system. Consider this just like the door latches that won't shut. Perfectly normal, nothing to see here, now move along.Think I'll try the alternator, but this time will seek competent help.

[CANMAN 23]

Ian,Why don't you come on the Loyalist Smarties Westport trip this Saturday.You can compare other 450's to yours and brainstorm about your problem.We will meet at the Tim Hortons in Belleville near the Reids Dairy and Home Depot, at 1 p.m.CANMAN

[ianjay 6]

I'll see how the weather holds out. If it's good, I will work in a trip to the Ivanhoe Dairy for some cheese curds.

[CANMAN 23]

I'll see how the weather holds out. If it's good, I will work in a trip to the Ivanhoe Dairy for some cheese curds.

Ian,If you decide to come up here one day to replace your alternator, you will drive right past the Ivanhoe dairy on your way to my house.Let me know if you are coming tomorrow, and I can save you a side trip, by picking up the cheese curds for you on my way to Belleville for the start of the trip.Mike

[ianjay 6]

Another update, now that I'm back online.Mercedes new and factory rebuilt alternators are not available. They are on back order from Germany.So, maybe the real reason Mercedes can't fix my car is that they can't get parts.I was going to make one more trip to Florida, but have now run out of vacation time and there is no way the flickering power supply would have made the trip.We are now looking for another car. It will not be another M-B product. I can't live with their "normal".