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tolsen

More power out of your Cdi - for free!

302 posts in this topic

There's your problem, don't fill to the maximum mark.

I am not entirely convinced a high oil level results in more oil in breather pipe. Crankshaft does not touch the oil in sump at all so I guess the issue with high oil level causing trouble is only a myth. Perhaps it is time to call in The Mythbusters?

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I am not entirely convinced a high oil level results in more oil in breather pipe. Crankshaft does not touch the oil in sump at all so I guess the issue with high oil level causing trouble is only a myth. Perhaps it is time to call in The Mythbusters?

I am not totally sure what happened. I have a vent that is collected by my driveway. Last oil change I put a full three liters in and as I finished up I noticed that I had a nice little puddle of fresh clear oil sitting under my car. I don't think I spilled any anywhere that day, and so I assume it came straight out that CCV.

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I am not entirely convinced a high oil level results in more oil in breather pipe. Crankshaft does not touch the oil in sump at all so I guess the issue with high oil level causing trouble is only a myth. Perhaps it is time to call in The Mythbusters?

Tolsen,I know you are joking, but the service guy at smart dealer said same thing - don't overfill the sump! Something they must have learned in MB/Smart training? (Mind you, then they went and overfilled it anyway!) With warranty almost ended, smart oil changes now move to the home front (4 cars, 2 lawnmowers, 1 snowblower, 3 outboards and a marine diesel make this almost full time job!)Re separator - maybe there are other cars that use something like that Landrover unit? Perhaps with better nozzle orientation. I found this one:http://www.cfpfilters.com/downloads/produc...ann/provent.pdf (some good general info here)And this info on installation on a VW TDI: http://www.emotors.ca/articles/128.aspxUnit cost $160, so a bit more expensive than Tolsens :)post-8531-1308058803_thumb.jpgpost-8531-1308058845_thumb.jpg

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The Mann-Hummel Provent does not work in the cold so not an option. Also much too large, far too expensive and requires replacement of its filter at regular intervals.Have been to the local Landrover garage. They had no cyclone in stock that I could inspect and measure but I was told they have never cleaned one out, never replaced one and never sold one. Obviously the cyclone is pretty reliable, therefore the negative info about these on Landyworld can only be sales talk.

Edited by tolsen

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The Mann-Hummel Provent does not work in the cold so not an option.

Where did you find that information?? References?The guy that did it on his TDI was in Denver, Co. where they do have winter.The Mann-Hummel spec says allowable ambient temperature is -31° to 248 °F (-35 °C to 120 °C), for short periods to 284°F (140 °C)But I do think that these units would be overkill.

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Where did you find that information?? References?The guy that did it on his TDI was in Denver, Co. where they do have winter.The Mann-Hummel spec says allowable ambient temperature is -31° to 248 °F (-35 °C to 120 °C), for short periods to 284°F (140 °C)But I do think that these units would be overkill.

That unit you posted details of is 221 mm high and require a removal hight above greater than 250 mm. Somebody may appreciate that this unit won't fit inside the engine room of a Smart. The only space were it may fit is externally on the side or on the roof. Therefore totally unsuitable for cold weather operation.

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That unit you posted details of is 221 mm high and require a removal hight above greater than 250 mm. Somebody may appreciate that this unit won't fit inside the engine room of a Smart. The only space were it may fit is externally on the side or on the roof. Therefore totally unsuitable for cold weather operation.

I didn't ever say it was suitable - I posted it as another source of good information on crankcase ventilation. It's worth reading! Very convoluted logic that you used to conclude (incorrectly) that it was not good for cold weather operation! I don't think it matters where it would be located if it is good to -35C.

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Very convoluted logic that you used to conclude (incorrectly) that it was not good for cold weather operation! I don't think it matters where it would be located if it is good to -35C.

Cheers for the link for its informational value :thumbup:TK has real-world hands-on experience in this regard, as have I. We both conclude that it is not suitable for smarts in our cold climate. Now, if there were actually room in the engine bay to install a monster like this, and if the engine produced far more waste heat than the cdi does, that may be another story...B :senile:

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Regarding the Land Rover oil separator, I got a message back from the Vancouver main dealer (also trading in Jaguar, Bentley, Aston Martin and Porsche). They don't have it in stock but can order it. Their price, commensurate with the luxury marques they service, is $93.06 FOB Vancouver. :yikes:

:senile:

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12 pounds each or 19.2 CAD each if you order 5 cyclone separators as you then qualify for free shipping. Obviously there will be taxes to be paid which will somewhat increase costs.

Group buy of the Landrover unit out of the UK? I'll take one!

If someone can organize this, I'd go in too :waving:

B :sun:

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TK has real-world hands-on experience in this regard, as have I. We both conclude that it is not suitable for smarts in our cold climate. Now, if there were actually room in the engine bay to install a monster like this, and if the engine produced far more waste heat than the cdi does, that may be another story...

Bill,Sorry - I hadn't realized you and Tolsen had actually tried one of those Mann units.

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Bill,Sorry - I hadn't realized you and Tolsen had actually tried one of those Mann units.

Graham, I haven't actually tried one in my smart. The dimensions of the Provent completely prevent its fitting in the standard smart engine bay - didn't have to buy one to measure that. I have physically tried at least four other kits like catch-cans, which were smaller than the Provent and there is barely room to fit one of those up in the bay without removing a ton of hardware. I tested two different concepts mounted remotely near the driver's side lower panel bracket and found that they froze in the winter. Froze and plugged the tubing and pressurized the sump, resulting in considerable messiness.All told, I have easily spent over $500 in various CCV experiments, over a 3-year period. TK's cyclone approach, IMnsHO, is the winning direction. If the Land Rover part works to our expectations, since it is an off-the-shelf kit, I believe that will be an awesome solution.B :sun:

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Probably - but where is the fun in that? ;):lol:

You can also buy aircraft ones - usually non cyclonic but fun -

Oil Separators

Cheers,

Cameron

Those aircraft separators are very expensive! But a couple of them are suitably sized. In particular, the M-20 has a configuration that would suit the smart. Funnily enough, I had looked at the car today and sketched something similar, except with a tangential inlet.

Posted Image

The vapor outlet tube on this design comes out the bottom and could mount directly on the air inlet vent connection. With some dimensioning, the inlet could be aligned directly with the valve cover connection. The drain could go to a catchpot near the muffler or be piped to the dipstick tube. Either way, the oil line will have a seal.

post-8531-1308191544_thumb.png

I may make one of these. But, on our car it seems that some of the oil leaks we had were actually from the turbo seal - that oil was blowing out the vent pipe connection and also entering the intercooler. Once the turbo was replaced, no more leaks. The separator will not of course help with oil from that source.

Edited by Graham

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Model 300B caught my eye as well and it always pays off to check out as many designs as possible before making your choice. We did look into aircraft air oil separators earlier in this thread (posts 112 - 113). Member Speedie came up with a link. It was suggested at the time that perhaps the sky high prices would limit their popular appeal unless you make your own.

Before designing your own separator I suggest you measure out position of the tie ins.

One major limitation is that breather gas inlet at TIK pipe is only 65 mm below centerline for outlet from rocker cover. Kindly note that TIK pipe inlet requires a special rubber hose fitting which will reduce the space available.

Posted Image

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Model 300B caught my eye as well and it always pays off to check out as many designs as possible before making your choice. We did look into aircraft air oil separators earlier in this thread (posts 112 - 113). Member Speedie came up with a link. It was suggested at the time that perhaps the sky high prices would limit their popular appeal unless you make your own.

That's where I found the 300 and is the post I quoted!

Before designing your own separator I suggest you measure out position of the tie ins.One major limitation is that breather gas inlet at TIK pipe is only 65 mm below centerline for outlet from rocker cover. Kindly note that TIK pipe inlet requires a special rubber hose fitting which will reduce the space available.

Thanks for those dimensions. Actually they seem to work out quite well. With this "inverted cyclone", the inlet can be low down - say 25mm from bottom. The 25mm TIK inlet offset helps in that the inlet has to be tangential anyway so can be oriented on opposite side from way your cyclone is.I wish I had kept my old breather tube so I could see how the TIK connection is made. I am guessing, but it looks like there would be ~25mm from bottom of separator to top of connection to make the connection.This M20/300b site makes for some interesting reading There is obviously more to those separators than it would appear. They don't think much of using a cyclonic unit :

Others have faked a "centrifugal" design, ignoring the fact that pressures coming off the crankcase could not blow out a birthday candle, much less set up a spiral flow powerful enough to sling out the oil.

Maybe our little diesel s different? It would be interesting to measure the vent flow. Edited by Graham

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Thanks for the interesting link Graham. Lots of sales talk there but some interesting points as well. Breather gas flow is fairly high and easy for you to verify by disconnecting breather hose.I see a leak in vacuum pipe may cause excessive breather gas flow and oil contamination so I'll check that out this morning.

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I have safely made it to mid Norway after 4 days and 3 hours of intensive driving along wet waterlogged roads.Have just checked intercooler for traces of oil. Still bone dry after more than 3000 km.Average fuel consumption on motorways, driving at speeds 110 - 120 km/ hour is so far 3.673 litres/ 100 km. (Based on 2313 km and 84.96 litres of fuel).

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I have safely made it to mid Norway after 4 days and 3 hours of intensive driving along wet waterlogged roads.Have just checked intercooler for traces of oil. Still bone dry after more than 3000 km.Average fuel consumption on motorways, driving at speeds 110 - 120 km/ hour is so far 3.673 litres/ 100 km. (Based on 2313 km and 84.96 litres of fuel).

Way to go T.K.! Have a safe trip.CANMAN

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These air tools filters and oil separators give too much back pressure and may result in gaskets and seals leaking on your engine. Just try blowing through any of these and you'll see what I mean.A catch tanks is better if you can find space for one.

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These air tools filters and oil separators give too much back pressure and may result in gaskets and seals leaking on your engine. Just try blowing through any of these and you'll see what I mean.A catch tanks is better if you can find space for one.

It you modify the separator it will be just a nicer looking catch tank. You can drill out the valves so they breathe both ways, and remove the filter.

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At which point it becomes easier to make one yourself, or order the Land Rover part from the UK and bend a couple of tubes.

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Again a matter of opinion or personal preference.I for one, will use an Air Line Seperator modifed with the tools I have. You/Others may have a differant selection of tools available to you so you may use a different setup.

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Graham,Did you ever make one of these?post-6677-1323553378_thumb.pngWould seem to be a fairly simple build with varying sizes of copper pipe and a small torch; I'm interested in this mod but I wouldn't be able to fabricate the cone that T. Olsen has created :mellow: ......I'm curious how your performs (if you did build it).MZ

I may make one of these. But, on our car it seems that some of the oil leaks we had were actually from the turbo seal - that oil was blowing out the vent pipe connection and also entering the intercooler. Once the turbo was replaced, no more leaks. The separator will not of course help with oil from that source.

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