Buying A Smart Ed

[kabirrb 0]

Hi there! I'm looking to buy my first car. I'm very knowledgeable about cars, and I know what I want. I definitely want an EV, and a convertible. The Smart ED first perfectly - I've already went out for a test drive and I love it! I've just got a few questions for you Smart ED owners out there. What is the reliability like? Is it a better idea to Lease of Finance the car....it's always a questions with EV's! Also, as a Canadian, I need to ask - how does the car do in cold weather? If I kept it warm in my garage, then went out to work and parked underground, would the temperature affect my range very much?Thanks so much in advance! You're really helping me out in making a very, very important decision. Cheers!

[awalford 0]

Had it 8 months. So far perfectly reliable.Have loved it. Great and fun car to drive.In BC so perhaps not as cold but winter range certainly falls off - more use of lights and heaters, and perhaps colder temp affecting battery. Note I park outside. I found my range fell to about 80km in winter (although I do drive in a spirited way!).

[MikeT 744]

Yes, that's why I could not use a smart ED. However the BMW i3 seems to have a solution like the Volt...mind you it costs 60% more than the smart.

[SmartElectric 31]

Yes, that's why I could not use a smart ED. However the BMW i3 seems to have a solution like the Volt...mind you it costs 60% more than the smart.

The i3 is easily double the price for BEV and close to three times the price for REX (range extender version) than the Smart ED.The Volt is almost double.The Leaf is 50% more.Nothing comes close in Canada. Now, if we lived in California, the price differences would be much closer!

[SmartElectric 31]

What is the reliability like?

Excellent. Took delivery in Nov 2013 and have not gone to the dealer since. Thousands of trouble-free KM of spirited driving.

Is it a better idea to Lease of Finance the car.

I bought, so no one could take this car away from me. However, we do have a second car in case of issues or range, so for me, I just need it for my daily commute. I would have leased if I wanted a different car in 3 years, but I usually keep my cars for 10+ years. Since I paid $19K all-in, that puts me at $1900 per year, or around $160/month, which is pretty close to the lease cost ($139/month + tax). So, I am unlikely to save any money on finance vs lease...again, the car is mine, and I can play with it, customize it and geek on it. I didn't buy this car for it's practicality LOL, I bought it because I like small nimble cars and have waited years to buy an electric (thought I'd have to build one myself!).

would the temperature affect my range very much?

Yes, read the MANY threads here that outline range in winter.

[MikeT 744]

Take the official range, divide by two, if that works for you, then go ahead. I would not want to own any cheaper electric car because I would need an official 300 km range, using my "divide by two" rule. Price is not all that important to me. The ideal situation is where you can lease the whole thing, assuming the terms are favourable, and the second best is to do what can be done in the USA and lease the battery.

[TO Ed 9]

I highly recommend the smart ED. Ours cost $19,000 all in. It is extremely frugal to buy and operate compared to our 05 smart diesel which is already very inexpensive to operate. I estimate that electricity costs less than 20% of diesel for the same distance traveled. Toronto Hydro provides a website that allows us to track cost of our electricity on an hourly basis. Fabulous site. However electricity costs should be doubled to take delivery and taxes into account.No mechanical issues in nearly two months of operation.If your garage is warm and you park underground at work, winter range shouldn't be much of an issue. Our garage is unheated and the car is never parked underground and we still got around 90 km of estimated range even when it was -15C. This estimated range would drop by a third when the cabin heat was in use. But cabin heat was only used to defog the window for brief periods so actual range was about estimated range at the end of the trip. Seat heaters are extremely effective so we only used then for a couple of minutes. They run off 12 volt battery so don't affect range. So range anxiety is pretty much nonexistent now.Overall we are extremely pleased with our smart ED.

[SmartElectric 31]

Seat heaters are extremely effective so we only used then for a couple of minutes. They run off 12 volt battery so don't affect range.

The seat heaters running on a 12 V 10A circuit are drawing around 150W, which is nothing, you could run the seat heater for an hour and only use 10% of the total charge.The 12 volt battery is "trickle charged" off the main battery. Here's the quote from the technical manual :

The 12 V on-board electrical system is suppliedwith power by a DC/DC converter in the powerelectronics control unit. The DC/DC convertertransforms the high direct voltage from the high-voltage on-board electrical system into 12 Vdirect voltage. The power electronics control unitthus performs the task of the alternator on avehicle with combustion engine.

Edited April 18, 2014 by SmartElectric

[Pete 2]

Nearly 4500 trouble free km on mine. I take it on the freeway daily. It does more than anyone could ask of a city car! I am very happy with mine.Cold definitely affected range. But if you garage yours, pre heat the battery, and use the heater sparingly, you may get by...depends on your commute. I can get 100miles + on warm days and less than 50 on cold days. Again, if you park outside overnight, than expect a major hit in the winter. Also, I've been getting away with 110v charging, supplemented by as needed 240v at work.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Pete

[dmoonen 54]

The eds are good but I think you should really sit down and see what full costs are involved and see if the Ed would fit your driving style and needs not just for today but for also a couple years down the road. I know specially with this being your first potential car you may want to sit back and crunch some numbers because a car costs a pretty penny especially if it isn't the one you needed in the first place.

Edited April 20, 2014 by dmoonen

[kabirrb 0]

I highly recommend the smart ED. Ours cost $19,000 all in. It is extremely frugal to buy and operate compared to our 05 smart diesel which is already very inexpensive to operate. I estimate that electricity costs less than 20% of diesel for the same distance traveled. Toronto Hydro provides a website that allows us to track cost of our electricity on an hourly basis. Fabulous site. However electricity costs should be doubled to take delivery and taxes into account.No mechanical issues in nearly two months of operation.If your garage is warm and you park underground at work, winter range shouldn't be much of an issue. Our garage is unheated and the car is never parked underground and we still got around 90 km of estimated range even when it was -15C. This estimated range would drop by a third when the cabin heat was in use. But cabin heat was only used to defog the window for brief periods so actual range was about estimated range at the end of the trip. Seat heaters are extremely effective so we only used then for a couple of minutes. They run off 12 volt battery so don't affect range. So range anxiety is pretty much nonexistent now.Overall we are extremely pleased with our smart ED.

I'm glad you shared this with me - I'm really worried about the winter. But, the car would be warm in the winter both at home and work. Worst case scenario, I always have a charger with me. I could easily plug it in! Thanks for your advice!

[informel 0]

Hi there! I'm looking to buy my first car. I'm very knowledgeable about cars, and I know what I want. I definitely want an EV, and a convertible. The Smart ED first perfectly - I've already went out for a test drive and I love it! I've just got a few questions for you Smart ED owners out there. What is the reliability like? Is it a better idea to Lease of Finance the car....it's always a questions with EV's! Also, as a Canadian, I need to ask - how does the car do in cold weather? If I kept it warm in my garage, then went out to work and parked underground, would the temperature affect my range very much?Thanks so much in advance! You're really helping me out in making a very, very important decision. Cheers!

I Live north of Montréal and received my Smart ED July 2nd 2013, and we had one of the coldest winter ever, let me tell you that there is almost no heat when it gets below -10 C. Also if you get stock in traffic in winter you you are using your batteries to warm you, so the range will be a lot less.As far as reliability, here is the list of problem I had..........none, it just run beautifully

[kabirrb 0]

For those of you with the Cabriolet, did you find that the rear window would fog up because of the lack of heat?

[SmartElectric 31]

I Live north of Montréal and received my Smart ED July 2nd 2013, and we had one of the coldest winter ever, let me tell you that there is almost no heat when it gets below -10 C.

I used the pre-condition feature in the mornings to pre-heat the cabin and turned on the heated seat on my drive. My wife noted the heated seat produces plenty of heat, and gets hot far faster than our Mercedes SUV.I found no issues heating the cabin here in Ontario, and we had plenty of -20C days and evenings. I don't know what car you came from, but the Smart ED is far faster at warming the cabin than any other vehicle I've owned, and the cabin is so much less interior volume, the entire air is warmed faster than a vehicle with larger cabin (which is every other car LOL).

[Pete 2]

Dillen has a great point about the ED being your first car. I have several other cars in my household, so the ED works for me as my primary commuter car. The ED does not work for everyone. I don't have to worry about competing for parking, and I also have a 240v charger at my workplace. My salesman told me that they had a customer who lives in an apartment, without a level two charger, and bought an ED intending to charge the car solely on public chargers. That is probably not realistic in most communities just yet.Cabrio Rear window was not an issue for me during cold weather.

[kabirrb 0]

[That's important to know - Do you mostly use your charger at home? Or, do you find that there are a few chargers out and about? Is it really hard to charge the car fully without a level 2 charger?

[SmartElectric 31]

Is it really hard to charge the car fully without a level 2 charger?

I am using the 120V EVSE (aka charger) that came with the car. I plug in when I have used more than 60% of the battery (meaning SOC meter shows 40% or less remaining).The recharge takes all night and is finished when I get in the car in the morning.I have only run to the bottom 20% left a few times, and still had range to spare for another day, but I like to have 40KM of range at a minimum just in case I need to run errands (which is very rare, perhaps once every few weeks) that take me more than 20KM on top of my 20KM commute.So, if you travel less than 60KM per day, you can stick with the EVSE (charger) that comes with the car. Edited April 25, 2014 by SmartElectric

[swl 13]

Like SmartElectric I rarely run my car below 40% and the level I always gets the job done. If you can have a dedicated 15Amp service you can run the charger in "fast" mode - 12Amps. That comes pretty close to a full charge in a 12 hour charge window.Winter can be a challenge. The heater works great but of course it is going all the time even when the car is stopped. If you are in stop and go traffic your range drops off dramatically - the heater is a function of time not distance. Turn it off and burst it to keep the windows clear and you can get 60-70 kms even at -15. Note however that the MB does specify a minimum operating temp of -20. If you are parking outdoors in -25 you are going to need to plug the car in if for no other reason than to keep the battery warm.If I were still commuting (about 75km round trip) I would try to negotiate with my employer. I'll buy the Level II EVSE if they would install it. Make it a public station - good PR. I could either pay them an annual fee for the electricity or do what that guy from IBM did - make a charitable donation in lieu of payment. My employer had a strong green policy so I think they might have gone for it.I chose to lease just to hedge my bets on resale value of the car. No one knows what the market for used EVs is going to be like in three years. If Ontario withdraws the incentives the value will jump. If they keep paying out $8500 then I think the value will not be so good. Certainly we are going to see falling prices for batteries and increasing range abilities and that will put downward pressure on EV resale prices.Reliability? No problem. We've heard of a few glitches but they are very rare. This is, mechanically, a very simple drivetrain. That is the other selling point. Other than brakes and lubrication there is no regular maintenance.

Edited April 24, 2014 by swl

[Francesco 71]

From what I can glean from the technicians' comments, the biggest "glitches" they have been correcting are really aggravating -- hard to pin down -- like brake lamp switches and speed sensors. Unlike in an ICE smart, these "glitches" tend to brick the ED, requiring a flatbed to the dealership.

[SmartElectric 31]

these "glitches" tend to brick the ED, requiring a flatbed to the dealership.

Ok, but I have yet to see a report of anyone of the hundreds of ED owners in the 4 forums I frequent experiencing such an issue.You may have information that is not otherwise posted in the most popular and public places to post such. If so, please post links.

[SmartElectric 31]

Note however that the MB does specify a minimum operating temp of -20. If you are parking outdoors in -25 you are going to need to plug the car in if for no other reason than to keep the battery warm.

No. I do not plug in at work, and have had no limitations in the ability to use my Smart ED in the cold.My Smart ED operated in temperatures as low as -34C with 40KM/h wind on top of that (so -45C with wind chill).When starting the car in extremely low temperatures, the battery heater will come on, and you will not be able to move the gear lever to drive until the battery has been warmed to operating temperature. My experience was about 4 minutes of heating provided the ability to drive away on 33% total power available (the dash power indicator shows a single "bar" out of three possible). After ~5KM (10 minutes), the second bar became available, and by the time I reached home at ~15KM of total distance and 20 minutes, the car had full power available.

[swl 13]

No. I do not plug in at work, and have had no limitations in the ability to use my Smart ED in the cold.My Smart ED operated in temperatures as low as -34C with 40KM/h wind on top of that (so -45C with wind chill).When starting the car in extremely low temperatures, the battery heater will come on, and you will not be able to move the gear lever to drive until the battery has been warmed to operating temperature. My experience was about 4 minutes of heating provided the ability to drive away on 33% total power available (the dash power indicator shows a single "bar" out of three possible). After ~5KM (10 minutes), the second bar became available, and by the time I reached home at ~15KM of total distance and 20 minutes, the car had full power available.

Yes - It is good that you clarified that. The car can operate under -20C. The limitation is on the battery and it has a warmer that lets it operate below -20.The work plug in point is a convenience, allowing you to jump in the car and go. No sitting around waiting for the battery. And, of course, if it is plugged in you can preheat the interior from your iphone. All of this is being done on the EVSE saving your battery for driving.I really think that EVSE's at work, even level 1, will do more for EV adoption than public charging stations. Not that pubic stations (malls, arenas, theatres ...) aren't needed. Just the work charging station will have a much greater effect on easing range anxiety.

[kabirrb 0]

Well, it looks like I'll be going in next week to sign my lease. I'm looking at around $300 all-in for the lease. I've got the Coupé with the surround sound, multimedia system, touring package and 24,000km/year over 36 months. Any tips and tricks to negotiate down further?

[Francesco 71]

Lower the annual kms! Are you really expecting to do 65 km a day, every single day of the year? Even so, if you go over by a few km at the end of the term, you will have saved money off the top of the lease, money that goes directly in your pocket -- every month. You will also save taxes. This more than makes up for the overage charge.

[kabirrb 0]

Lower the annual kms! Are you really expecting to do 65 km a day, every single day of the year? Even so, if you go over by a few km at the end of the term, you will have saved money off the top of the lease, money that goes directly in your pocket -- every month. You will also save taxes. This more than makes up for the overage charge.

Hmm....I guess you're right. I'll definitely be driving at least 72km per day Tuesday to Friday. How much off the lease do you think I'd save a month?