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steveyfrac

Atrocious Winter Range

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Basically, I'm already down to 50-60 km anticipated range at around -5 C. Yes I use the heat, but relatively sparingly. I find if I don't use heat at all, my windows fog up, and the car gets uncomfortably stuffy.

That's pretty terrible. I can't round trip for pretty much anything more than work. I can't take my car to lunch. They need to improve cold weather performance, even if they have to do that by adding more batteries.

A heat-pump style heater would probably also work fairly well. At -5, a cold rated heat pump could produce decent amounts of heat at much higher efficiency.

Hopefully the 453 electrics will address this issue. I can make it work for me, but I feel sorry for anyone who was expecting at least an 80 km range in winter.

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That is interesting to read. I think many people are expecting the next generation of electric cars to be better.

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Just ignore the range estimator and watch your SOC gauge and see how you do. At -7 to -12degC, I have been doing 80+km on a single charge with more than 20% charge remaining, and I use the heat continuously. I refuse to be cold or uncomfortable, that is the job of the car to provide that. I expect my range will not change much even at the lower temperatures because the heater is the same power. I agree it could be more efficient, but at -20degC and below, heatpumps will not work. That's the trade-off between an IC based electric car and a purpose-designed one.

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My SoC is nearly agreeing with the range. I'm blowing through 80% SoC on my commute some days, which is about 50 km round trip.

I was doing more like 130 km in summer on 80% SoC.

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I've been scared by the range indicator but the weather has been mild recently. I've used the car around here for short trips and have found that the remaining range has been significantly greater than the initial range indication. SWMBO has returned to using the diesel Smart for longer trips. I'll be storing both at the end of the month as we're outa here until the end of March.

I do agree that a consistent 150 km range with heat would make the cars much more desirable and sellable.

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Recently, I've been fine as well, but when we had that cold patch in November, my range was definitely in the crapper.

100 km of -30 C range would be enough. In all honesty, it would. More is obviously better. But a reported 50 km range, with a realistic 60 km range is just barely enough for me to scrape by. Visiting my parents after work means being trapped there for 8 hours, or pulling out an extension cord at work, neither of which is pleasant.

--Steve

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My worst-case range last winter was 70km at -15C, mostly highway with moderate heat. Shorter than my then 90km commute, but I was able to charge at work. That winter, I had a handful of days where the daytime charge was required to get me home.

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I've been scared by the range indicator but the weather has been mild recently. I've used the car around here for short trips and have found that the remaining range has been significantly greater than the initial range indication. SWMBO has returned to using the diesel Smart for longer trips. I'll be storing both at the end of the month as we're outa here until the end of March.

I do agree that a consistent 150 km range with heat would make the cars much more desirable and sellable.

There's a 70 hp range extender "option"..... :icon_smile:

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I've been scared by the range indicator but the weather has been mild recently. I've used the car around here for short trips and have found that the remaining range has been significantly greater than the initial range indication. SWMBO has returned to using the diesel Smart for longer trips. I'll be storing both at the end of the month as we're outa here until the end of March.

I do agree that a consistent 150 km range with heat would make the cars much more desirable and sellable.

There's a 70 hp range extender "option"..... :icon_smile:

The 70 hp range extender comes attached to the single worst transmission I've ever experienced. :D

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Ya, it's pretty bad. At 120 - 140 km / charge, I can get pretty much anywhere in southern Ontario and back, albeit with a bit of planning. But, 50-60? That's pretty much a non-starter.

They need at least 100 km range cold to make this car really go mainstream.

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Yup, I would consider one that got a real 200+ km in good weather and over 100 km in 15 below weather. Not that it gets 15 below here more than once every 10-20 years!

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The good news is that using Tesla style battery pack, the car could hold 26 kWh. Combine that with better aerodynamics on the 453, and I bet you could actually get pretty close to those numbers.

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Just out of curiosity, have you reset the "history" recently? Since the estimated range is mostly just a calculation with influence from your driving history... you might get a different range displayed if you reset it.

I was looking at a pre-owned ED today. 90% SOC, remaining km's showed 71. I reset both history's (START and RESET) and the display immediately showed 110km's. The RESET history showed about 5xxx+ km's... so it could be a good idea to clear it out every now and then.

Edited by twobytwo

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I took my car for a highway trip this morning (a secondary highway, that is) and stuck to an average of 80kmh. It was hovering around

-6 degrees C. Didn't do any pre-heating. I ended up going 110 km. Didn't have to use much heat as it was sunny and I have the panoramic roof, and the highway was relatively flat. Of course I kept the acceleration on the conservative side. @steveyfrac I don't think your dismal mileage is normal, unless you were slogging through snow.

Edited by Jaguar

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I've blogged about my range experience :

http://mysmartelectricdrive.blogspot.ca/2014/03/range-experiences.html

Briefly, as I discuss in the blog, there are real reasons for the reduced range, much of which has to do with the design of the battery pack.

One way to improve range is to pre-condition the Smart ED so that the battery and cabin are warmed before setting off on a cold day.

Personally, I am more than comfortable with the 60km worst case range, but I certainly do appreciate that this doesn't work for everyone.

I will keep my Smart ED for as long as it runs, because it's a perfect car for my commute.

However, to replace our other vehicle, we'll need a full range EV, likely a Tesla, as we often road trip 300km on winter weekends.

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I really like the idea of the smart ED, and even tried to test drive one with cash in hand (it was dead at the dealer even though I gave them a 2week heads up....but that's another story)I think because of its size its only going to get marginally better, and a guy (or gal) has to plan for the bottom end of the range when making their purchase. I'm very appreciative of this forum and its dedicated members for giving real world accounts of their cars. Its made me realize that for me, where I regularly make 100km trips (few times a week) and I have a 50km return drive to work, and its regularly cold as a witches tit, the ED won't work for me, no matter how much I want it to. And I think having to decide between being warm and making it home shouldn't happen.

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I think because of its size its only going to get marginally better

Battery density is likely to double by 2020, making a 150km all-weather Smart ED a possibility.

In the mean-time, if you have a longer drive, then the many other such as the Volt would be suitable.

I've driven the current crop of EV's available in Canada.

The Tesla is amazing of course, however, the Volt is a very nice car, and I am interested to see what the next version delivers in terms of all-electric range.

In Alberta, with cold winters and longer trips, the Volt is a good choice IMHO.

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I agree about the Volt. Yes, the electric range goes way down when the temperature falls, but you still get to drive the car! I'm in Florida right now. I didn't see any Tesla's on the way down which probably just points to wealthy people flying instead of driving. The question people ask me in Florida is very close to the one I got with the diesel smart, "did you drive that car all the way here?"

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On the advice of TwobyTwo, I reset my history, and my remaining range jumped up to 85 km and it's -5 out... Interesting...

It must have assumed that I'm going to continue driving like an ass all winter, which, granted, might not be a terrible assumption on it's part. I'd be kind of nice if it was more response to how I'm driving lately, as opposed to how I drove in June though...

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I agree about the Volt. Yes, the electric range goes way down when the temperature falls, but you still get to drive the car! I'm in Florida right now. I didn't see any Tesla's on the way down which probably just points to wealthy people flying instead of driving. The question people ask me in Florida is very close to the one I got with the diesel smart, "did you drive that car all the way here?"

This range thing just got me thinking I met a cool guy at a tradeshow, James Dennis is his name (Sun Country Highway) and he set the record for driving an EV across Canada and had a Telsa Roadster on display and he owns a Model S. I just checked out his site which is pretty cool and has an EV Trip Planner with range.

The Volt is one car I've had on my wish list for a while but never made the cut.

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I'm really looking forward to seeing the second-generation Volt when it makes its debut in January in Detroit.

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Has anyone been able to figure out how our heater works? I get the impression that if it is on it is generating heat at full power and mixing in outside air in response to the "temp" you set. Just like an ICE car. If that is the case then there is an easy way for them to increase winter range - use a thermostat to control the ceramic heater. Turn it off rather than mix outside air.

For me, I would be very happy with a webasso style aux heater instead of the ceramic. Run on used cooking oil if need be. Leave the battery for motive power and battery conditioning.

Just a thought on the varying ranges in winter. The heater will deplete the battery as a function of time, not distance. Stop and go city traffic will kick the snot out of your range if you have the heat on. At highway speed the effect of the heater/Km is significantly less.

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Has anyone been able to figure out how our heater works? I get the impression that if it is on it is generating heat at full power and mixing in outside air in response to the "temp" you set. Just like an ICE car. If that is the case then there is an easy way for them to increase winter range - use a thermostat to control the ceramic heater. Turn it off rather than mix outside air.

For me, I would be very happy with a webasso style aux heater instead of the ceramic. Run on used cooking oil if need be. Leave the battery for motive power and battery conditioning.

Just a thought on the varying ranges in winter. The heater will deplete the battery as a function of time, not distance. Stop and go city traffic will kick the snot out of your range if you have the heat on. At highway speed the effect of the heater/Km is significantly less.

Our heater varies it's output based on how cold it is outside, how warm you want it inside, and the fan speed. You can verify this yourself by getting into a cold car, running the heater at speed one, at temp 18. Check the current draw. Now, set the temp all the way to the top, and the fan speed to 4. Wait a bit, and watch as the current draw ramps up over time to try and get your car to 26 degrees as quickly as possible. I've observed this many times.

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