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MikeT

VW Cheated on EPA emission tests for their TDI diesels!

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Again, GM got what amounts to a slap on the wrist ($900 million fine and some easy sanctions) for dozens (to hundreds) of counts of negligent homicide. There is no way VW's fines will come to anywhere near $18 billion.

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I still have a hard time with the EPA train of thought. . . Let's go after the 50mpg diesels many years after the fact and let the 15mpg American trucks roam wild.

The trucks may burn 4 or 5 times more fuel but the EPA has stated that the tdi in question may be polluting 40 times the legal limit. You do the math on which is worse.

Right, but the EPA claim is that VW is using a stealthy EGR delete. The EPA is way more concerned about the oxides of nitrogen being emitted by small diesels than by any of the real pollutants spewed by large gasoline-powered engines; under EU-5, those oxides are less of a priority than CO. The claim of "40 times" more is only about nitrogen oxides. A 2.0 litre diesel that burns 5 l/100 km is still emitting one half to one fifth the pollutants and greenhouse gases that are spewed by large, V8-powered luxobarges, trucks and penis-extensions.

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I just caught the last part of the news and I heard that up to 11 million cars could be affected around the world by this. This is not going to go away easily, if at all.

The report is now posted by Canadian Press but I can't seem to post the link.

Edited by SmartED

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I'm sure other countries will be investigating this as well. I can't imagine the EU will look kindly upon the diesel emissions regulations being sidestepped on millions of cars.

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"In a statement, VW said: Discrepancies relate to vehicles with Type EA 189 engines, involving some 11m vehicles worldwide. A noticeable deviation between bench test results and actual road use was established solely for this type of engine."

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/22/vw-scandal-escalates-volkswagen-11m-vehicles-involved

Shit just got a whole lot worse. And VW shares dropped another 20%.

Edited by darren

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No - there is a new article that I saw on Yahoo from CP. I can't post, or maybe have not figured out how yet! Worldwide there could be up to 11 million cars affected.

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Their stock value is still only down to where it was at 3-1/2 years ago. I think the value was a little inflated up until now.

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I think that at this point, any value of VW stock is too much.

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Well it's only worth what you can get out of it. VW is a big company, if shares tank below $100, then it's a great buying opportunity.

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Let's see, 11 million affected cars worldwide, let us conservatively say there is a liability of $10,000 per illegal car, to cover repairs and class actions and regulatory fines. I make that to be 110 billion dollars. Their total value as a corporation right now is a touch more than half of that. I would not buy into that scenario unless I was either a masochist or ready to lose it all.

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They'll never pay out $10K per affected car. A company that size is too important to the economy. In the end the actual cost to them will likely be little more than a slap on the wrist - a couple directors will likely be made scapegoats and heavily penalized - after all a corporation is a legal person without a moral compass or mind of its own, so it's its living, breathing directors that are responsible for its actions. Sinking the company would be more of a punishment to its innocent employees and suppliers.

The company will bounce back in a year or two, and all will be forgotten by the masses.

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You sound like someone who already owns VW stock. Good luck with that.

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Nope, I don't own any. I'm not saying that the predicted outcome is fair or just, only that it seems a likely outcome.

The reality of it is, if the stock tanks enough, investors will jump at the opportunity for a solid value investment causing it to rise in price again.

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Well for what it's worth, I think diesel in passenger cars is done like dinner in North America, and probably Europe too. After the present models run out their cycle, that will be it.

As far as VW, they probably are too big to fail. The appropriate punishment would be for them to go bankrupt (if that is what happens as a result of all this) and that the present government stake is raised to a majority. I also hope that the responsible parties are charged criminally to this and do time like Citizen Black.

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I don't disagree. These companies have simply gotten too big, it would be nice to see them get broken down into smaller companies - it would add more variety, competitiveness, and adaptability.

Unfortunately, justice has become a bit of a commodity these days, so those who can afford better justice tend to get it.

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Unfortunately, justice has become a bit of a commodity these days, so those who can afford better justice tend to get it.

That is a very true (and sad) statement. Very well put.

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They spelled it out very clear. Up to $37,500 civil penalty per vehicle brought into commerce in the United States. That could include any transfer of inventory to the books of VW Group of America that haven't even entered the country yet, including advanced pre-orders by dealerships.

EPA definitely covered their bases.

Time for Vdub to beg for mercy.

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Does anyone know if there is a minimum civil penalty per violation? The penalty is an "up to" amount, which as anyone whose ever been to traffic court knows, is almost always reduced to half and then given payment terms.

I wouldn't be surprised if the end result was a small fine of a few million dollars and a requirement to achieve a mutually agreed upon fix (whether sufficient or not to meet the CAA) for vehicles already sold, and of course full compliance on MY2016 and forward.

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LOL, I bet MB is shitting their pants right now...

I kind of admire VW actually - emissions testing is totally bogus right now because it doesn't measure emissions - it's all done through OBD and nothing coming out of the tailpipe is actually measured. They just said "Well fuck you back!" to the system.

Edited by Duck

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As the French say, "Et les autres constructeurs ( Allemands ) doivent serrer les fesses...."

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LOL, I bet MB is shitting their pants right now...

Yes I'm sure there is another scandal brewing when the world or someone high up in some far off country notices that MB is claiming cars built in France are not French, but registered as German! Oh the shame. :masked: Stay tuned - scandal at 11.

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Again, VW has allegedly installed an EGR-delete software subroutine that is temporarily disabled when the car is being tested. This is a load of malarkey in the grand scheme; the EPA and CARB simply aren't concerned with real pollution and GHG emissions -- else they'd have long ago banned cars like the Hellcat and most SUVs -- but are instead focused on going after oxides of nitrogen and specifically targeting smaller diesel-powered passenger cars. The EU standards focus on GHGs and overall emissions, and less on NOx. Did VW act criminally in misrepresenting the cars? Yes. But in the big picture, sorry, even with the EGR deleted a 2.0 l TDI pollutes significantly less than any V6 or V8 car with similar power output.

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