stickman007

My turn to have a no start on the smart - Running Now!

80 posts in this topic

If the engine crank at "normal" speed but it is no starting, i don't think pushing it to start it change anything..

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@stickman007 It works perfectly. If you don't have enough juice to crank, or are having connection issues at the starter, bumping is the way to get it to fire up.

ETA: Izzy, I wasn't suggesting push-starting as a way to get yours to fire, I was just confirming to Zenon that it works perfectly when it needs to be done.

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I want to work on it so badly...but not a fan of going outside at -28C (this morning). A few ideas to try this week here and there in between work.

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I honestly don't know the cause of my intermittent no-fire condition. I wanted to think it was glow plugs, but sometimes it happens at close to the freezing point; even without glow plugs it should fire (and run a bit rough for a few seconds) down to about -5°C. That leaves fuel flow, injection timing (crank sensor), or some other enigmatic cause.

In your case, is there LP flow to the HP pump? After confirming that, check for rail pressure with DAS during cranking. If that also checks out I'd move to the crank position or TDC sensor, and that will surely have to wait for an indoor work space or warm weather.

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Jeeezus, the dealer price for the crank position sensor is $217 plus taxes. Good thing there are so many cross references for it. No way I'm getting it at the dealership!

Just checked... Between US$45 and $70 online.

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So finally got a chance to work on the little beast today. Coldest day of the week -7C.

I undid the alternator belt, and put jump cables on another battery. Here's what I got on STAR while cranking:

Cranking RPM around168 (w alternator) to 190 (w/o alternator) => from what I gather, this is normal

Fuel Rail Pressure maxes out around 284BAR => should be enough to start (not a fuel problem)

Synchronizing Status is always on either cylinder #1 or waiting => maybe crank sensor is not getting a consistent reading?

Battery voltage drops to around 9v => battery to be blamed? I've forgotten what is normal...its been awhile since 1st year apprenticeship

Still no start.

Will swap out a known good battery and will report back. I bad battery usually if one of the cell is dead can affect the electrical system even if its jumped with a good battery.

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So update:

I don't have a good battery to swap! The other new one I had drained and froze so its no good. I still have the receipt from CT so I might go and try to get an exchange. However, I don't think the battery is the issue anymore because when fully charged it reads 12.6v (normal) and 11v ish when cranking.

So unless someone else has any other ideas, I suppose its down to crank sensor and compression? I kind'a doubt it compression because it was running fine when I parked it. Should I try some starter fluid just for kicks?

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Avoid starter fluid. Try instead penetration oil into inlet manifold. The thin penetration oil should in theory restore compression sufficiently to get engine to synchronise and start.

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So remove the intake manifold and squirt a bit of penetrating oil into cylinder #1? Would that run the risk of hydrolocking (if I accidentally added too much?)

These little engines are direct injection and doesn't have pre-combustion cups? So starting fluid might be less of a risk?

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One could drill a hole in inlet manifold for this purpose and seal with a self tapping screw.

Last time I used starter fluid was more than thirty years ago on my 1957 Massey Ferguson 35. I would never attempt using starter fluid on a modern diesel except in a life threatening emergency.

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One last ditch idea without being a major engine problem.

What if it's bad fuel? The tank was nearly full when I filled it up before parking. Or it has summer fuel instead of winter fuel? I did park it before winter set in. Would that explain the symptoms that I'm getting?

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Summer diesel ought to be ok until minus 15-16C. Becomes like oatmeal soup although not as good to eat. The only cure is heat the whole car.

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You could dump a bunch of diesel fuel conditioner into the fuel tank, and rock the car to help it blend with the fuel.

Canman

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I tried starter fluid and it didn't even kick! I removed the EGR pipe and sprayed into the intake hose while cranking (so the glow plugs wouldn't ignite and backfire). Cranked for 30sec. Nothing. So far this is not looking good.

I guess the engine is coming out whenever I have time. Probably won't be till March break or summer.

Kdubya suggested an harness issue, I do have a spare harness, that maybe on the next agenda.

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That would seem to be very low compression.....but unless the engine is turning over superfast, I wonder.

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One last "stupid" thing to rule out would be to jump the car just incase the battery is the culprit - haven't had much luck with CT batteries.

I should tap the crank position sensor and see if get a pulse...probably won't be anything I recognize, but at least if no pulse would mean that I should dig deeper.

I hate to admit, maybe its time to buy a diesel compression tester...low compression would confirm the issue. The high pressure pump has a slight weeping, but as Tolsen pointed out in another post, even if one pump element is working should be enough to idle. I don't think fuel is the issue here. Should confirm pressure with STAR though.

I've started this car in -30C weather before, so -10C shouldn't be an issue. I've spent the last few days trying all the different combinations of cycling glow plugs and cranking time to no avail. Whenever I plug in my magnetic oil pan heater, it cranks a bit faster, but still no kick from the engine.

I can see the alternator pulley turning, but just to confirm, I will remove the belt.

Unfortunately, I am selling my smart...(I will probably get burn for this, but I'm hoping for a '15 TDI Sportwagen - whenever VW lift the sales ban. I can only fit 2 cars in my garage and there's no parking in my townhouse complex).

Tapping the crank sensor to get a pulse doesn't work?

These are Inductive Crank position sensors. You can test it this way...

I suspect that if metal particles attach themselves to the tip of the CPS it would perhaps prevent or interrupt the signal to the ECU.

I repaired my ABS problem this way as metal accumulated around the sensor. Cleaned it off and solved the problem

Edited by GRP151

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Hi Francesco

I did some research on the sensor you posted. That part number doesn't appear to be correct for the 2005- 2006 CDi OM660 motor. Is this for a gas model?

the site you posted showing this part number 0 261 210 141

also shows another part number 0 261 210 170 as a similar option? I wonder why?

Either way this number is coming up as the OEM part number

003 153 96 28.

Its available at https://order.germanparts.ca/search.html

on Sale for $88 from $210

or ebay for a lot less

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MERCEDES-W210-W140-W208-W202-CPS-CRANKSHAFT-CRANK-POSITION-SENSOR-0031539528-/150642633921?hash=item2313002cc1:g:Rc0AAMXQZdFRGpQt&vxp=mtr

or even less for US $18.99!!!!

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/w-Two-Locking-Tabs-Crankshaft-Crank-Position-Sensor-For-Mercedes-Benz-ML320-/231658706466?hash=item35efef5622:g:agAAAOSwMmBV0aPc

What do you think? which one is it?

Edited by GRP151

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How does crank sensor work?

How to test it?

Edited by GRP151

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Crank speed sensor for our Smart 450 Cdi:

Bosch 0 261 210 141
Smart/ Mercedes A 003 153 95 28
Search Bosch 0 261 210 141 if you want a Bosch sensor. Searching by Mercedes part number will bring up lots of cheap pattern parts of questionable quality.

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I wonder why MB has 2 different numbers for the same product for the exact same motor?

003 153 95 28

003 153 96 28

What could be the reason?

Crank speed sensor for our Smart 450 Cdi:

Bosch 0 261 210 141
Smart/ Mercedes A 003 153 95 28
Search Bosch 0 261 210 141 if you want a Bosch sensor. Searching by Mercedes part number will bring up lots of cheap pattern parts of questionable quality.

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So I finally had a good few hours to diagnose my smart. The conclusion now is that my compression is too low for the ecu to determine the stroke cycle. I don't have a compression gauge to confirm, but I've exhausted all the options that I can think of.

I swapped in a rebuilt HPFP, not necessary, but just in case

Removed/clean and tested the crank sensor (within spec - and surprisingly easy to removed unlike most members who have tried). Checked the wiring harness for short and open.

Using star and wis, found everything to be well within spec (cranking rpm, duty% press sure regulator, fuel pressure...etc. No codes.

So here's my dilemma, should I swap engine? Or pull it apart to fix.

The goal is to sell it eventually, but the car is close to worthless now not running. But I do have time, the car can continue to sit where it is for at least another year.

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I really don't want to spend $1500ish when the car is only worth around $3k running here in AB. Right now, can't even find an engine.

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