Staying warm in winter

[Frostyfx 0]

Hello,

I looked around a bit but could not find the answer to my question.

I currently have a 2006 fortwo diesel and for the life of it, it cannot stay warm in the winter when it is below -20C.

I am planning on getting a 2008 and would like to know if the gas engine does a better job at staying warm and heating the car up during the long winter months?

Thanks

[Huronlad 186]

The gas 451 is much more comfortable in the winter. As a bonus the A/C is likely to work as well.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Huronlad

[Frostyfx 0]

The gas 451 is much more comfortable in the winter. As a bonus the A/C is likely to work as well.

Thank you for your reply.

So in the -20 to -30 if the car is at idle does the engine warm up or does it cool off?

[Huronlad 186]

I do not let my car idle for any length of time.

[Leadwing 565]

Most experts currently believe that an extended warm-up period is not needed. (and yes, what Hurlonlad said in post #2) The gas models will give more heat. That said, my 450 never seems to have heat issues, regardless of the outside temps.

Letting it run about 10 to 15 seconds is more than enough time to allow the car's computer to adjust settings for the temperatures encountered.

Letting it run to warm up these days is simply wasteful. Fire it up, count to 10 and go!

In days gone by, getting the car up to operating temperature by letting if idle was needed to get reasonable performance and allow the automatic chokes to open completely.

If you want the interior to be warm when you start, I would suggest that you get an in-car 110V heater to preheat the cabin area. These are easy to install and can be set on a timer.

[tolsen 630]

Here is proof that a Smart 450 Cdi does not need to run cold.

Thermometer indicates in Centigrade. The Cdi 450 has warmer cab than its petrol sibling.

Edited March 8, 2016 by tolsen

[Da Shoumi 3]

Here is proof that a Smart 450 Cdi does not need to run cold.

Ok, but aside from your restrictor plug, do you ever use any kind of block/coolant heater to ensure your engine starts smoothly when the weather is very cold?

[Sparky 5]

The 451 with heated seats will warm your buns pretty well instantly and with -10 hear in the BC lower mainland sometimes it will warm up within a couple of km's. We love ours with never any interior heat problems. Surely someone in your area with 451 can clue you in at those temperatures. From 2008 on I believe, you can get as an option when heat is full on it gives 12V instant electric heat until motor warms up. Good luck.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Sparky

[tolsen 630]

Here is proof that a Smart 450 Cdi does not need to run cold.

Ok, but aside from your restrictor plug, do you ever use any kind of block/coolant heater to ensure your engine starts smoothly when the weather is very cold?

I never used to have any engine heater but do now have a DIY 100 Watt electric oil sump heater fitted.

This heater is purely to get engine started if temperature should ever drop low. Lowest so far here since fitting has only been minus 6 C.

To enjoy a warm cab in a 450 Cdi, all you need is a restrictor plug, good thermostat and fully working electric heater.

[Frostyfx 0]

Here is proof that a Smart 450 Cdi does not need to run cold.

Thermometer indicates in Centigrade. The Cdi 450 has warmer cab than its petrol sibling.

Thank you for replying everyone.

The only way my 450 would have all three bubbles in -20 is if I have been driving on the highway. If I let the car just sit and idle to warm up it would never get past one bubble if that.

The reason I am asking is not to warm up the engine for the engine like in the old days. I understand that with todays cars there is no problem with letting it run for a few seconds and driving away without a problem. I am asking because during the cold Alberta winters it is nice to get into a warm car that has preheated itself for about 10 to 15 minutes. I could never get that with the 450 and I would like to be able to do that with the 451.

[Frostyfx 0]

The 451 with heated seats will warm your buns pretty well instantly and with -10 hear in the BC lower mainland sometimes it will warm up within a couple of km's. We love ours with never any interior heat problems. Surely someone in your area with 451 can clue you in at those temperatures. From 2008 on I believe, you can get as an option when heat is full on it gives 12V instant electric heat until motor warms up. Good luck.

The inline heater is only on the Diesel cars and for me it does not help out too much while the car is standing still.

[tolsen 630]

Applies to both 450 and 451 diesel models:

To run electric heater on max you need to run engine at 2500 RPM or higher. Engine gets quicker up to operating temperature with electric heater on max for the following reasons:

1) Electric heater puts additional load on engine.

2) Engine must be run at 2500 RPM or higher.

[tolsen 630]

Purpose of the restrictor plug is to increase pressure differential over thermostat enough to keep check valve in thermostat closing element shut, thereby not loosing precious heat to radiator when engine is trying to warm up.

A 2008 North American specification Smart 451 may not have any coolant temperature indication so there would be no blobs to inspect.

http://www.evilution.co.uk/index.php?menu=info&mod=799

[MikeT 744]

I wonder how many of us 450 diesel drivers actually have a properly functioning thermostat. Mine has been perfect for 100,000 km. The car is always at 85 C, at minus 23 and at plus 35.

[yukoner 9]

We quit running ours after -30°. It was just a pain in the butt. Then we'd have to go through the whole ritual again in order to come home. Damn the economy, I'm too old to be freezing my nose hairs. So I stick in the old high idle chip and let it run for 10 minutes with the heater booster on. First blob comes up in half a k, and it starts making useable heat on its own in another k.

Defrost is a whole other issue.

[tolsen 630]

I think most cars would need additional heaters when temperature goes down much below -20 C. That was certainly the case with all military vehicles I drove years ago. No way could you get a warm cab by coolant heat alone. Webasto was the answer.

The Smart 450, both the petrol and the diesel are seriously let down by their thermostats. Their engines produce enough heat to keep you warm if you only can find a way of harnessing that heat.

[Huronlad 186]

The 451 has no issue keeping the cabin more than warm in temps below -20C.

[tolsen 630]

I would love to test mine out in - 30 C or lower. The only problem is no such low temperature has ever been recorded here. Lowest recorded temperature was - 27.2 C at Braemar, an hour's drive up the glen from me, on 10 January 1982.

[SmartEdge 1]

My 451 was showing temps down to -28C last winter and I never had a problem starting or driving it. It was a lot of highway use and the only issue I had was regulating the heat.

The hottest setting was just too hot, no matter how I manipulated the vents. One notch lower was almost like turning off the heat completely.

Edited March 12, 2016 by SmartEdge

[tolsen 630]

Japanese engineering obviously better than German.

[MikeT 744]

German engineering makes me miss the French cars. Well, I still have one of those!