heat in the diesel smart

[Willys 747]

How much air is being pushed through the heater system..? Correct or weak?

 

[atrucker 4]

1 minute ago, Willys said:

Hi, does the car make heat but the air passages are plugged or something?

maybe the hose is off the tube or something?

I plan on doing the old school vinyl over whatever percentage it takes to keep the 3 bubbles lit....when driving at speed limit so to speak. I drive mostly in rural locations so start and stopping is minimal.

no, the car doesn't make much heat in the dead of winter.   The heat gauge will only show one or two blobs on very cold days.   I drive a lot in the city and the highways around here are like parking lots a lot of the time in winter... near Golden Horseshoe loop at Hamilton

[atrucker 4]

Not cold yet and I am already unable to get it piping hot.  The 12 volt ceramic heater looks like a very easy install as it has the wire and connectors already attached.  The battery is inside so it is a no brainer... I'll install it tomorrow and keep working on the car itself.  I have a few extra small ceramic 110 volt heaters and will put one in and tie it into the same plug as the block heater. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by atrucker

[Willys 747]

So you force it to....by either blocking off it's cooling capabilities, or force it to work harder to generate heat. What about what Glenn suggested, restricting the intercooler rad's cooling ..? By maybe putting a manual switch on the fan? IF it can't pull air through, it won't cool as well..?  Not sure if that really helps making the engine run hotter? I know blocking the radiator will if it's done dirctly over it and not allowing space between the blocking agent and the fins of the rad. Trying to block off the rad by simply blocking the bodywork openings won't work.

 

[atrucker 4]

7 minutes ago, Willys said:

How much air is being pushed through the heater system..? Correct or weak?

 

correct

[Willys 747]

I bought this to install onto the lower rad tank...

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B075PWYH6W/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_1

 

and this to attach to the oil pan...

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B015CXHG06/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_2

 

and like you will wire them together also with a cerramic heater before that initial start up, for whatever time it takes to get the car either hot or warm.

[Willys 747]

Just a thought......where does the heater pull it's intake air supply from?   What if you redirected it to directly behind the rad for the winter? Use a hose or drier hose type piping so it gets warmer air before it even gets to the heater core?

 

[Willys 747]

So your heater core fins are all perfectly good as in shaped correctly and not bent or plugged?...just tossing shit to the wall now to see if it sticks type spit balling

 

[atrucker 4]

1 minute ago, Willys said:

I bought this to install onto the lower rad tank...

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B075PWYH6W/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_1

 

and this to attach to the oil pan...

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B015CXHG06/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_2

 

and like you will wire them together also with a cerramic heater before that initial start up, for whatever time it takes to get the car either hot or warm.

I have a couple of magnetic oil pan heaters, but haven't used them yet.   I am more concerned with the return trips when I can't plug the car in and have to leave it for the better part of the day... like at work or some other kind of long outing.  

For local stuff, I will be fine with all the electrical heat.

[Willys 747]

Maybe your heater core is plugged?

Not allowing enough water to flow through it to exchange heat?

[atrucker 4]

Just now, Willys said:

So your heater core fins are all perfectly good as in shaped correctly and not bent or plugged?...just tossing shit to the wall now to see if it sticks type spit balling

 

Got good heat oout of it today...but it's warm out...so ya the hvac system is ok.   I believe it is the thermostat or bypass... and the general bad design of the heating system.   It does a great job of keeping it cool in summer so I can't knock it too much.   The a/c blows cold and on the hottest days it keeps me cool and never overheats even one blob.

[atrucker 4]

1 minute ago, Willys said:

Maybe your heater core is plugged?

Not allowing enough water to flow through it to exchange heat?

guess anything is possible as I haven't really gotten into it yet.  it was too late to do much about it last year.  hope to get the jump on old man winter this year and get er hot.

[Willys 747]

1 minute ago, atrucker said:

Got good heat oout of it today...but it's warm out...so ya the hvac system is ok.   I believe it is the thermostat or bypass... and the general bad design of the heating system.   It does a great job of keeping it cool in summer so I can't knock it too much.   The a/c blows cold and on the hottest days it keeps me cool and never overheats even one blob.

OK, so it is delivering good heat today, so it's only when the car can't generate engine heat you are getting cold, so back to engine cooling or reducing that aspect of it, back to the rad, if it's working fine during the summer a simple adjustment to the amount of rad surface area should solve your problem no?

 

[atrucker 4]

16 minutes ago, Willys said:

So you force it to....by either blocking off it's cooling capabilities, or force it to work harder to generate heat. What about what Glenn suggested, restricting the intercooler rad's cooling ..? By maybe putting a manual switch on the fan? IF it can't pull air through, it won't cool as well..?  Not sure if that really helps making the engine run hotter? I know blocking the radiator will if it's done dirctly over it and not allowing space between the blocking agent and the fins of the rad. Trying to block off the rad by simply blocking the bodywork openings won't work.

 

yes, I have put cardboard directly in front of a diesel van's rad that I have and it works well.   I just blocked the grill openings on the smart to see if I could get 3 blobs out of it and it did.   I'm sure it won't in the winter but it points to an overactive bypass … that's what the vans have- when they have heavy duty cooling.

from what I have read, the cars need help in cold climates... or a least some of them need help.   This one needs help in this weather.

Edited October 2, 2018 by atrucker

[Willys 747]

I am thinking the same thing with my winter beater, I want it good to go when the white stuff starts flying so my good car stays salt free.

I plan on doing everything we are talking about, in the next few weeks, plus finish it's 2" body lift, then find real snow tires to fit, and seal up the sun roof with draft stop and corner rear windows...I have finally dried out the carpets took for ever! Seal the windshield like crazy....looks are secondary on this baby!...lol.
I think i like the idea of rerouting the intake air for the heater for a winter beater, force it to suck after rad air where it's either semi blocked getting the most heat it can and also flow enough to blow well. Silicon the hose directly to the rad so it has no choice but to suck directly through the rad. You won't effect the operation of the rad by doing so imho.  worth the try..lol  just make sure you use soft hose so it doesn't rub through the rad if vibrating...?

[atrucker 4]

5 minutes ago, Willys said:

I am thinking the same thing with my winter beater, I want it good to go when the white stuff starts flying so my good car stays salt free.

I plan on doing everything we are talking about, in the next few weeks, plus finish it's 2" body lift, then find real snow tires to fit, and seal up the sun roof with draft stop and corner rear windows...I have finally dried out the carpets took for ever! Seal the windshield like crazy....looks are secondary on this baby!...lol.
I think i like the idea of rerouting the intake air for the heater for a winter beater, force it to suck after rad air where it's either semi blocked getting the most heat it can and also flow enough to blow well. Silicon the hose directly to the rad so it has no choice but to suck directly through the rad. You won't effect the operation of the rad by doing so imho.  worth the try..lol  just make sure you use soft hose so it doesn't rub through the rad if vibrating...?

All of these little things will help and enough of them will solve the problem.  I will get under it and block off the intercooler scoop for the winter.  every little bit will help.  I'll be getting the jeep tj on the road in another month or so but want to keep the smart going too... so need to have it going in the winter to see if the problems get cured or not.

 

why not follow the factory's lead and put the intake air feed to the exhaust manifold ??  hotter than the rad for cold running...  then block off or switch to rad after warm up

Edited October 2, 2018 by atrucker

[Willys 747]

1 minute ago, atrucker said:

yes, I have put cardboard directly in front of a diesel van's rad that I have and it works well.   I just blocked the grill openings on the smart to see if I could get 3 blobs out of it and it did.   I'm sure it won't in the winter but it points to an overactive bypass … that's what the vans have- when they have heavy duty cooling.

Hmmm... a bypass hose, what happens if you remove it completely simply pinch it off with vice grips? That'll force the stat to work sooner?

The bike I worked on neded that bypass hose to keep the engine temps more regular or less ups and downs temp wise to help stop sleeve deformation issues....they used to get waves in the sleeves and some believed this would fix it, didn't, it was a machining issue at the factory being machined too fast and it warped the sleeves. Some believed a hotter engine was better, I don't believe this when making horse power... to each their own.  But we looked atthe bypass issues in the opposite way....it always came back to the rad and how well it cooled and when.

 

[atrucker 4]

13 minutes ago, Willys said:

OK, so it is delivering good heat today, so it's only when the car can't generate engine heat you are getting cold, so back to engine cooling or reducing that aspect of it, back to the rad, if it's working fine during the summer a simple adjustment to the amount of rad surface area should solve your problem no?

 

could very well solve the problem... it worked today .. and more effective blocking will work better

[Willys 747]

I did 25 years of modding Jeeps, TJ's I never touched I stoped when they got square headlights...lol. YJs....JUNK!   Real men worked with leaf springs and flexable frames...lol  Super Swampers were my friend..lol Detroit locker, military surplus.....those were the days!   Best one I had was a 1947 Cj2a with odd fire buick V6 advance adapter SM420,Military transfercase, PTO drive semi modern axles converted from drums to discs front only...lol and wearing 31 swampers Locked front and rear, 8000 warn front, PTO rear....unstopable.....loved it! Last one I have is my 52 Willys Pick-up...street rod.

I'm off to bed, talk later keep us informed....l

 

[atrucker 4]

2 minutes ago, Willys said:

I did 25 years of modding Jeeps, TJ's I never touched I stoped when they got square headlights...lol. YJs....JUNK!   Real men worked with leaf springs and flexable frames...lol  Super Swampers were my friend..lol Detroit locker, military surplus.....those were the days!   Best one I had was a 1947 Cj2a with odd fire buick V6 advance adapter SM420,Military transfercase, PTO drive semi modern axles converted from drums to discs front only...lol and wearing 31 swampers Locked front and rear, 8000 warn front, PTO rear....unstopable.....loved it! Last one I have is my 52 Willys Pick-up...street rod.

I'm off to bed, talk later keep us informed....l

 

will do... I was going to convert a van to 4x4... have all the axles, divorced 205 cases... but just never happened...yet    good night.  will keep up to date on heat issue.

[Leadwing 565]

11 hours ago, atrucker said:

Hi Leadwing.   Thanks for the input.   I did pick up a roadpro 12 volt ceramic heater from the T/A truck stop in Woodstock.  It was on sale at a great deal so I grabbed it but haven't installed it yet...I am hesitant to work the alternator so hard.  I will hook it up for emergencies such as sudden cold spells and freezing rain.   It is 300 watts and really blows heat well.  I would like to ask if your little buddy is a diesel heater ? 

 

The ceramic heater I was referring to was a 110V unit.  The Little Buddy is a 110V heater connected directly to the female plug under the carpeting on the passenger side near the battery.  The power for this is supplied by connecting directly to household current. (See photo to find the factory installed plug or you can just run a standard extension cord into the car)  This plug also feeds power to the oil pan or block heater.

The '06 should have this already installed.

 

I have found that with heat already in the car from the Little Buddy, the car's heating system keeps me comfortable once I start driving it.  On my '05 (the one pictured below), The temperature indicator never shows more than two 'blobs', but delivers enough heat to satisfy me once I get it on the highway. 

[atrucker 4]

I've run an extension cord to the cord inside the car.   The pictured covered plug is not a standard one and I don't have anything like it.    I tested the draw and it does work, ( the block heater I assume ) but I found very little difference in the morning start up and warm up.  

 

I installed the 12 volt ceramic heater directly to the battery and will only use it for windshield clearing.  

 

After I duct taped the grill and garbage bagged the lower grill opening,   I found the car warms up a little faster but does hold the heat much better.  

It still takes a little hard work to get it to 3 blobs on the heat gauge in cold weather this time of year,... 1 to 5 degrees C.    I've never had to turn the heat down before !!   The car is much more comfortable so far and I will be doing much more to it in the near future

 

[Nigel 287]

Maybe you guys should read the first post In this topic  

 

Nigel

[Willys 747]

On 12/17/2016 at 4:07 PM, smart142 said:

I recently installed an aftermarket thermostat in a friends cdi.

Of course I had to test drive it to make sure there were no leaks or air locks(there were),

Once that was sorted out I was impressed with how much heat the little beast was putting out on a -14 day.

So I installed another one in my recently acquired smart - very happy. It was -10 and out on the highway I got 3 bubbles.

And to think I suffered through many a winters due to a crappy thermostat - ouch!!

 

The thermostat I used was a made in Germany one - a Wahler.

Opens at 90 degrees.

I am guessing that car you installed it into was mine...eh Glenn as it delivers good heat , so much I need to keep it turned to almost 1/2 way or it cooks you. It also stays at the 3 blob mark.

[Casperft 1]

On 12/18/2016 at 5:04 AM, tolsen said:

I got them for trade price.  Only £3.75 each.

hi tolsen can i get the exact dimensions of the restrictor plug so i can make one