smart142

heat in the diesel smart

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How much air is being pushed through the heater system..? Correct or weak?

 

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1 minute ago, Willys said:

Hi, does the car make heat but the air passages are plugged or something?

maybe the hose is off the tube or something?

I plan on doing the old school vinyl over whatever percentage it takes to keep the 3 bubbles lit....when driving at speed limit so to speak. I drive mostly in rural locations so start and stopping is minimal.

no, the car doesn't make much heat in the dead of winter.   The heat gauge will only show one or two blobs on very cold days.   I drive a lot in the city and the highways around here are like parking lots a lot of the time in winter... near Golden Horseshoe loop at Hamilton

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Not cold yet and I am already unable to get it piping hot.  The 12 volt ceramic heater looks like a very easy install as it has the wire and connectors already attached.  The battery is inside so it is a no brainer... I'll install it tomorrow and keep working on the car itself.  I have a few extra small ceramic 110 volt heaters and will put one in and tie it into the same plug as the block heater. 

Edited by atrucker
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So you force it to....by either blocking off it's cooling capabilities, or force it to work harder to generate heat. What about what Glenn suggested, restricting the intercooler rad's cooling ..? By maybe putting a manual switch on the fan? IF it can't pull air through, it won't cool as well..?  Not sure if that really helps making the engine run hotter? I know blocking the radiator will if it's done dirctly over it and not allowing space between the blocking agent and the fins of the rad. Trying to block off the rad by simply blocking the bodywork openings won't work.

 

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7 minutes ago, Willys said:

How much air is being pushed through the heater system..? Correct or weak?

 

correct

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I bought this to install onto the lower rad tank...

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B075PWYH6W/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_1

 

and this to attach to the oil pan...

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B015CXHG06/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_2

 

and like you will wire them together also with a cerramic heater before that initial start up, for whatever time it takes to get the car either hot or warm.

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Just a thought......where does the heater pull it's intake air supply from?   What if you redirected it to directly behind the rad for the winter? Use a hose or drier hose type piping so it gets warmer air before it even gets to the heater core?

 

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So your heater core fins are all perfectly good as in shaped correctly and not bent or plugged?...just tossing shit to the wall now to see if it sticks type spit balling

 

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1 minute ago, Willys said:

I bought this to install onto the lower rad tank...

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B075PWYH6W/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_1

 

and this to attach to the oil pan...

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B015CXHG06/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_2

 

and like you will wire them together also with a cerramic heater before that initial start up, for whatever time it takes to get the car either hot or warm.

I have a couple of magnetic oil pan heaters, but haven't used them yet.   I am more concerned with the return trips when I can't plug the car in and have to leave it for the better part of the day... like at work or some other kind of long outing.  

For local stuff, I will be fine with all the electrical heat.

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Maybe your heater core is plugged?

Not allowing enough water to flow through it to exchange heat?

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Just now, Willys said:

So your heater core fins are all perfectly good as in shaped correctly and not bent or plugged?...just tossing shit to the wall now to see if it sticks type spit balling

 

Got good heat oout of it today...but it's warm out...so ya the hvac system is ok.   I believe it is the thermostat or bypass... and the general bad design of the heating system.   It does a great job of keeping it cool in summer so I can't knock it too much.   The a/c blows cold and on the hottest days it keeps me cool and never overheats even one blob.

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1 minute ago, Willys said:

Maybe your heater core is plugged?

Not allowing enough water to flow through it to exchange heat?

guess anything is possible as I haven't really gotten into it yet.  it was too late to do much about it last year.  hope to get the jump on old man winter this year and get er hot.

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1 minute ago, atrucker said:

Got good heat oout of it today...but it's warm out...so ya the hvac system is ok.   I believe it is the thermostat or bypass... and the general bad design of the heating system.   It does a great job of keeping it cool in summer so I can't knock it too much.   The a/c blows cold and on the hottest days it keeps me cool and never overheats even one blob.

OK, so it is delivering good heat today, so it's only when the car can't generate engine heat you are getting cold, so back to engine cooling or reducing that aspect of it, back to the rad, if it's working fine during the summer a simple adjustment to the amount of rad surface area should solve your problem no?

 

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16 minutes ago, Willys said:

So you force it to....by either blocking off it's cooling capabilities, or force it to work harder to generate heat. What about what Glenn suggested, restricting the intercooler rad's cooling ..? By maybe putting a manual switch on the fan? IF it can't pull air through, it won't cool as well..?  Not sure if that really helps making the engine run hotter? I know blocking the radiator will if it's done dirctly over it and not allowing space between the blocking agent and the fins of the rad. Trying to block off the rad by simply blocking the bodywork openings won't work.

 

yes, I have put cardboard directly in front of a diesel van's rad that I have and it works well.   I just blocked the grill openings on the smart to see if I could get 3 blobs out of it and it did.   I'm sure it won't in the winter but it points to an overactive bypass … that's what the vans have- when they have heavy duty cooling.

from what I have read, the cars need help in cold climates... or a least some of them need help.   This one needs help in this weather.

Edited by atrucker

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I am thinking the same thing with my winter beater, I want it good to go when the white stuff starts flying so my good car stays salt free.

I plan on doing everything we are talking about, in the next few weeks, plus finish it's 2" body lift, then find real snow tires to fit, and seal up the sun roof with draft stop and corner rear windows...I have finally dried out the carpets took for ever! Seal the windshield like crazy....looks are secondary on this baby!...lol.
I think i like the idea of rerouting the intake air for the heater for a winter beater, force it to suck after rad air where it's either semi blocked getting the most heat it can and also flow enough to blow well. Silicon the hose directly to the rad so it has no choice but to suck directly through the rad. You won't effect the operation of the rad by doing so imho.  worth the try..lol  just make sure you use soft hose so it doesn't rub through the rad if vibrating...?

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5 minutes ago, Willys said:

I am thinking the same thing with my winter beater, I want it good to go when the white stuff starts flying so my good car stays salt free.

I plan on doing everything we are talking about, in the next few weeks, plus finish it's 2" body lift, then find real snow tires to fit, and seal up the sun roof with draft stop and corner rear windows...I have finally dried out the carpets took for ever! Seal the windshield like crazy....looks are secondary on this baby!...lol.
I think i like the idea of rerouting the intake air for the heater for a winter beater, force it to suck after rad air where it's either semi blocked getting the most heat it can and also flow enough to blow well. Silicon the hose directly to the rad so it has no choice but to suck directly through the rad. You won't effect the operation of the rad by doing so imho.  worth the try..lol  just make sure you use soft hose so it doesn't rub through the rad if vibrating...?

All of these little things will help and enough of them will solve the problem.  I will get under it and block off the intercooler scoop for the winter.  every little bit will help.  I'll be getting the jeep tj on the road in another month or so but want to keep the smart going too... so need to have it going in the winter to see if the problems get cured or not.

 

why not follow the factory's lead and put the intake air feed to the exhaust manifold ??  hotter than the rad for cold running...  then block off or switch to rad after warm up

Edited by atrucker

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1 minute ago, atrucker said:

yes, I have put cardboard directly in front of a diesel van's rad that I have and it works well.   I just blocked the grill openings on the smart to see if I could get 3 blobs out of it and it did.   I'm sure it won't in the winter but it points to an overactive bypass … that's what the vans have- when they have heavy duty cooling.

Hmmm... a bypass hose, what happens if you remove it completely simply pinch it off with vice grips? That'll force the stat to work sooner?

The bike I worked on neded that bypass hose to keep the engine temps more regular or less ups and downs temp wise to help stop sleeve deformation issues....they used to get waves in the sleeves and some believed this would fix it, didn't, it was a machining issue at the factory being machined too fast and it warped the sleeves. Some believed a hotter engine was better, I don't believe this when making horse power... to each their own.  But we looked atthe bypass issues in the opposite way....it always came back to the rad and how well it cooled and when.

 

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13 minutes ago, Willys said:

OK, so it is delivering good heat today, so it's only when the car can't generate engine heat you are getting cold, so back to engine cooling or reducing that aspect of it, back to the rad, if it's working fine during the summer a simple adjustment to the amount of rad surface area should solve your problem no?

 

could very well solve the problem... it worked today .. and more effective blocking will work better

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I did 25 years of modding Jeeps, TJ's I never touched I stoped when they got square headlights...lol. YJs....JUNK!   Real men worked with leaf springs and flexable frames...lol  Super Swampers were my friend..lol Detroit locker, military surplus.....those were the days!   Best one I had was a 1947 Cj2a with odd fire buick V6 advance adapter SM420,Military transfercase, PTO drive semi modern axles converted from drums to discs front only...lol and wearing 31 swampers Locked front and rear, 8000 warn front, PTO rear....unstopable.....loved it! Last one I have is my 52 Willys Pick-up...street rod.

I'm off to bed, talk later keep us informed....l

 

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2 minutes ago, Willys said:

I did 25 years of modding Jeeps, TJ's I never touched I stoped when they got square headlights...lol. YJs....JUNK!   Real men worked with leaf springs and flexable frames...lol  Super Swampers were my friend..lol Detroit locker, military surplus.....those were the days!   Best one I had was a 1947 Cj2a with odd fire buick V6 advance adapter SM420,Military transfercase, PTO drive semi modern axles converted from drums to discs front only...lol and wearing 31 swampers Locked front and rear, 8000 warn front, PTO rear....unstopable.....loved it! Last one I have is my 52 Willys Pick-up...street rod.

I'm off to bed, talk later keep us informed....l

 

will do... I was going to convert a van to 4x4... have all the axles, divorced 205 cases... but just never happened...yet :)    good night.  will keep up to date on heat issue.

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11 hours ago, atrucker said:

Hi Leadwing.   Thanks for the input.   I did pick up a roadpro 12 volt ceramic heater from the T/A truck stop in Woodstock.  It was on sale at a great deal so I grabbed it but haven't installed it yet...I am hesitant to work the alternator so hard.  I will hook it up for emergencies such as sudden cold spells and freezing rain.   It is 300 watts and really blows heat well.  I would like to ask if your little buddy is a diesel heater ? 

 

The ceramic heater I was referring to was a 110V unit.  The Little Buddy is a 110V heater connected directly to the female plug under the carpeting on the passenger side near the battery.  The power for this is supplied by connecting directly to household current. (See photo to find the factory installed plug or you can just run a standard extension cord into the car)  This plug also feeds power to the oil pan or block heater.

The '06 should have this already installed.

 

I have found that with heat already in the car from the Little Buddy, the car's heating system keeps me comfortable once I start driving it.  On my '05 (the one pictured below), The temperature indicator never shows more than two 'blobs', but delivers enough heat to satisfy me once I get it on the highway. 

Smart Plug.jpg

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