Blaine

Toronto Area 453 EDs

27 posts in this topic

Thought I should pass this on info for others in the area.    Our 451 ED lease was just up so I had reason to visit the MB offices.

 

I let MB sales do their dog and pony show to try to convince us to get a new vehicle.    First up the salesman tried to sell me an ICE, but got the message when I was clear I wasn't interested in anything other than an EV.   He didn't mention that the current ICE Smarts were EOL, but admitted it after I asked. 

 

Took a test drive in the 453 ICE.   Nice turning circle, "less firm" suspension.    Noisy compared to ED.  Ok, but way below the ED for acceleration.     The base level unit did not have the nice adjustable seats, and does not have an adjustable steering wheel. 

 

Based on what I was shown, Toronto corporate stores have only 3 base trim coupe 453 EDs on order (black on black, no options).   No current pricing.   No info on Cabrios.

  • Polycarbonate roof is an option
  • TPMS was listed as both a base and an option.  (US Kit info maybe)
  • LED lights (DRL, rears) are optional and include a fog kit.   Main headlight is an H4 non-LED if I interpreted correctly.
  • LCD panel satnav option, includes backup camera
  • Ambient light kit option is separate from LED headlights
  • Not much else to choose from
  • No body panel kits available 
  • No red seats (black, black-gray, black-orange)

 

Time to delivery from May '17 would be Sep/Oct '17.

 

Putting in an order and then extending the 451 ED lease for 5 months would have cost us 8% of the 451 buy out, 1/3 of which would have been financing costs.   We ended up purchasing the 451 ED because it saves us about $2000 a year.   Plus my wife seems to have bonded with it at an emotional level.   :-/   Now I can start hacking the 451 :)

 

There were no Smarts on the showroom floor.    Salesman hadn't sold an EV before but was responsible for Smart sales.    Nice guy, and very helpful, generous with his time.   I'd certainly consider ordering though him if we were going to get another ED.

 

Hope that helps others.

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Our lease will be up in August. MB corporate has said over the phone they will extend our lease until replacements are available for up to 6 months. They have said there is no pricing available on the 453 ED yet so it's hard to figure out what is going to happen. We had an amazing lease deal which I don't think we will get even close to again (it was the $99/month promotion for the base model). Does anyone know roughly what lease pricing will be like on the 453 ED?

 

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8 hours ago, Blaine said:

 Based on what I was shown, Toronto corporate stores have only 3 base trim coupe 453 EDs on order (black on black, no options) 

 

Complete incompetence or purposeful, either way, with a $13K rebate, they will sell out of ED's at MSRP.   No need to discount.   If they don't stock the ED's, it's their fool fault.

 

Did they list how many loaded ED's they were ordering?

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1 hour ago, Jef said:

 Does anyone know roughly what lease pricing will be like on the 453 ED?

 

 

I was quoted 1.9% APR with a loyalty discount.   So it kinda depends on the sale price for something without a price. :(      I'd guess somewhere in the 150-200 range given the 13,000 rebate in Ontario and a slightly higher sale price.

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26 minutes ago, SmartElectric said:

 

Did they list how many loaded ED's they were ordering?

 

I guess I wasn't clear.   They have only three ED of ANY trim ordered.   Assuming the guy had his filters set properly and wasn't jerking me around.   He seemed pretty up front.   That might change once they get final pricing and option lists. 

 

I went through the process of picking a Design Red and Black, poly roof, LCD satnav, LED lights etc (so pretty loaded) and he had to feed it into the system as a scratch order.   Sigh.

 

I hope its just that they are waiting for final details.   With the rebate in Ontario as long as they don't raise the MSRP stupidly, they should be rolling them out the door on rockets.

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They can't give away ICE 453s and now it sounds like they will do their best not to sell any electrics either.

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The new EDs will be eligible for an extra $4,500 rebate in Ontario. I'm not great at math but that's $125 per month over 36 months. My lease says the residual value is 35% of the MSRP, which would mean that my lease should be paying back 65% of the retail price. 65% of $4,500 would be $2,925 or $81.25 per month. If the MSRP stayed the same, shouldn't that mean that a 36 month lease should be at least $81.25 less per month? The world of leasing is very confusing to me, but shouldn't it be fairly easy to get a lower lease rate now that Ontario is kicking in an extra $4,500?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

4 hours ago, GMoney said:

The new EDs will be eligible for an extra $4,500 rebate in Ontario. I'm not great at math but that's $125 per month over 36 months. My lease says the residual value is 35% of the MSRP, which would mean that my lease should be paying back 65% of the retail price. 65% of $4,500 would be $2,925 or $81.25 per month. If the MSRP stayed the same, shouldn't that mean that a 36 month lease should be at least $81.25 less per month? The world of leasing is very confusing to me, but shouldn't it be fairly easy to get a lower lease rate now that Ontario is kicking in an extra $4,500?

 

You *should* be able to get a better lease payment.   However, if MB raises the price by a few thousand then we're back to where we were before.   The 13000 rebate comes off of the after tax sale price, and it is paid to MBFS.    So assume your MSRP is 29,000 and with the tax you're looking at 32,700.   Less 13,000 is 19,700.    Which is a couple of thousand less than what we financed for our 451 ED.  Plus they may put a different residual on the lease, or a different rate.  But if they increase the price of the options, etc. then that gets wiped out pretty easily.

 

Sadly, any speculation before we know the real numbers is just speculation.  

 

Just remember that in the fall there will be quite a few new BEVs.      New Smart, Leaf, Golf, and Tesla.  Updated Soul, maybe an i3.   Plus a bunch of PHEVs.   The market is changing quickly.    GM might even produce enough Bolts to make them available faster than 6-8 months...

 

 

Edited by Blaine
correcting a term (LOL)
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The problem is that MB has been taking a beating on the leases.  My car's buyout was $12k, but market value was $8k...  MB can't take an additional loss of $8k per car for very long.  They're depreciating very quickly.  That will probably cause them to lower their residuals to avoid being fleeced, which will raise lease prices.

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3 hours ago, steveyfrac said:

The problem is that MB has been taking a beating on the leases.  My car's buyout was $12k, but market value was $8k...  MB can't take an additional loss of $8k per car for very long.  They're depreciating very quickly.  That will probably cause them to lower their residuals to avoid being fleeced, which will raise lease prices.

 

Not that I'm saying autotrader.ca is the best place, but they currently show 25 EDs in Canada with the cheapest one $10k.  And its very basic.    The market value seems to be a bit higher here and inline with our buyout.   That's just over 2% of all Canadian EDs (1141), which doesn't seem oddly high.      I'm not convinced that MB is taking a beating on the returned vehicles.  Although they may be hiding something or playing other games.   

 

fwiw, autotrader lists 175 used LEAFs out of a total of 5037 sold (3.4%).   Much less for Tesla of course.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Blaine said:

 

Not that I'm saying autotrader.ca is the best place, but they currently show 25 EDs in Canada with the cheapest one $10k.  And its very basic.    The market value seems to be a bit higher here and inline with our buyout.   That's just over 2% of all Canadian EDs (1141), which doesn't seem oddly high.      I'm not convinced that MB is taking a beating on the returned vehicles.  Although they may be hiding something or playing other games.   

 

fwiw, autotrader lists 175 used LEAFs out of a total of 5037 sold (3.4%).   Much less for Tesla of course.

 

 

My car has substantially more kms on it than that, and I got the high km lease.  If I'd got the standard km lease, the residual would have been $15k.

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Hopefully we'll see the new pricing for Canada soon, since the US pricing was just released.

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Of note, the US price for 453 ED base is $24K, which translates to $22000 Euro, which is the price in Europe.

The CAD exchange would put this at $33K Canadian, which would price it out of the market...

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The European price includes the 20% sales tax....

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Your math sucks too I guess.  :huh:

$22000 Euro with 20% tax included is more like 18300 euro and converted to CAD (today) that would be $27600.

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You're not making any sense, 22,000 Euros less 20% tax equals 17,600 Euros.

At today's rate that equals $26,591...

In either case, your original $30,000 is way off the mark.

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Since the 20% tax is charged on the pretax MSRP, that would make the no-tax price around 18,333 Euros (times 1.2 = 22,000).

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The DailyMail posted about a 2017 ED battery fire.   Looks like at least one was delivered if the 2017 is the 453.  The frame looks more like a 451.

 

It will be interesting to follow the investigation.  The EVSE is a burned out husk on the wall of the building.   Good thing the car was outside.  There is virtually nothing left of it.

Edited by Blaine

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That definitely looks like a 450 Tridion to my eyes. Possibly an aftermarket electric conversion?

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