GRP151

Three bars of DEATH! Oh. no! not me!

14 posts in this topic

Just bought this 2005 CDi a few days ago with this problem.

Motor will not turn over to start position 2.That's the first problem

Battery is fully charged with plenty of AMPS,  all gauges are working, brake lights responding, alternator not seized its running free,  primary fuel pump running when turned to start position.

Thinking the starter could be another problem (because the car has been sitting for a few years)  I lowered the motor to check it out. I disconnected the main battery from the car and used a portable booster battery to connect directly to the starter, for this test, and the starter worked. (I did this in case there was a short in the wiring and did not want to experiment with it this way)

I replaced the actuator with one that I know is working, still no start and 3 Bars are laughing at me!

 

I opened the SAM Unit to investigate the circuit board and as I looked closely I could see cracks in the folded part of the board.I tried to solder it but it was too brittle even after applying heat to soften it.

I had another SAM unit from another car and swapped the computer portion into this one and the have same results. Three bars from Willy still there!

 

 

Now I'm going to energize the Blue wire to the solenoid and see if it will start. I hope the injectors are getting pulse signal (I have no way of testing that yet)

I'll be back with some results. Until then, all comments appreciated!

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

ive had good results in the past using liquid copper to fix flexible circuits...

 

you can find it in the section with all the permatex products...they market it as defrost window grid repair...its like copper nail polish

 

 

that board looks like a challenge though

Edited by LooseLugNuts

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The Smart ones will solder in jumper leads rather than soldering cracks in a flexible circuit board.

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Apparently tolsen and loosenuts have problems reading his post!

GRP151 said he abandoned the attempt to repair the flexible board as it is a bigger job than just swapping the SAM computer to another board.

Comments solving this problem would be more appropriate than jabbing at idiotic issues

You would think that some of the members on this board are 'socially retarded' when comments like this appear

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6 hours ago, tolsen said:

The Smart ones will solder in jumper leads rather than soldering cracks in a flexible circuit board.

Soldering leads to a board where some of the circuits have 50 amp draw would require a very thick wire and when attempting to close the board with the plastic insulator/spacer would be impossible without cutting groves into it. A complete waste of time if you have another board which he did.

Small crack with little to low amperage jumpers are not the issue. Did you see how many cracks were on this circuit board? If you had no other board then that tedious task would need to be done. 

Thanks grp151 for confirming that the Sam computer can be removed and re-soldered into another board. I'm sure there are those here that never knew that.

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You solder the jumpers between solder points. Apply good judgment and add more than one jumper where required. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

2 hours ago, caldense said:

Apparently tolsen and loosenuts have problems reading his post!

GRP151 said he abandoned the attempt to repair the flexible board as it is a bigger job than just swapping the SAM computer to another board.

Comments solving this problem would be more appropriate than jabbing at idiotic issues

You would think that some of the members on this board are 'socially retarded' when comments like this appear

 

at the end of his post it says "all comments appreciated"

 

i couldn't care less what you  think is appropriate 

 

and I agree with you about the socially retarded members here but I still like to drop in frequently 

Edited by LooseLugNuts
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@ caldense ..... Please try to keep your comments civil.  This site exists for the people who enjoy their smarts.  The OP mentioned that "all comments appreciated", so it is open season on comments that are meant to help him.  He may or may not chose to use the advice given to him by Tolsen and LooseLugNuts, but that is his choice.  Suggestions by both long time members are good suggestions and someone with even a minimum of talent should be able to perform either solution.  IF he choses to ignore the suggestions is entirely up to GRP151.  Insulting members in good standing is not an acceptable action.

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After the family left this past long weekend I finally got the chance to get back into it. I should mention that prior to this my OBDII Scanner came up with No Codes stored.  With the key turned to position 2 and I simultaneously energized the Blue starter lead from the SAM unit  the motor would turn over but would not start. I suspect the injectors are not being energized by the controller. Oh well:(

When I checked again with the scanner it showed code P0702!  That may be of some help getting closer to the problem. Have to get back into some more reading here hopefully the solution is nearby!

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Checked all the wiring around the Actuator, gear selector, position sensors and found no wire chafing anywhere. All connections are good.

What I did notice was that when I press the brake pedal with no key in the ignition the instrument panel , radio, and upper lights besides the clock turn ON?

It's as if it was connected to the position 1 of the ignition switch. 

So to recap all I've done so far was remove the SAM computer module from one unit to the other.

When I did that I thought my worries were over!

 

 

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22 minutes ago, GRP151 said:

What I did notice was that when I press the brake pedal with no key in the ignition the instrument panel , radio, and upper lights besides the clock turn ON?

It's as if it was connected to the position 1 of the ignition switch. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

1 hour ago, smartdriver said:

 

Thank you smartdriver!

It turned out that I had plugged one of the switched fused wires from the cable harness into an unswitched position as you mentioned.

I guess that's good and bad news.

The good news the instruments lights don't light up when the pedal is depressed

The bad news is she still won't start!

Edited by GRP151

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Hooray! Solution at last!

After replacing the gear selector and another clutch actuator from another car the same symptoms remained. Motor would not spin or crank, as we call it, but all instruments, immobilizer and other electronics worked.

When I connected my Star machine and looked for codes there were a few stored in memory. I erased what I could and re erased ones that reappeared to make sure they were gone. 2 of the codes did not erase and they were regarding mismatched readings from Sam unit and A1 instrument cluster.

I then decided to do a teach in and I could hear the gear selector and actuator working.

After that I shut the Star system down and attempted to start the motor. It would spin but would not start.

Being a true believer in Quick Starting fluid I decided to give it a shot. The motor was still lowered so it was easy for me to release the hose clamp for the air duct above the EGR valve. I was able to creep up the hose just enough to get the quick start nozzle in place.

I cranked the motor twice and on the third crank it kicked and coughed and then ran! Ran it did, it was a wonderful sound, after all this time searching for a solution the job was completed! Motor runs beautiful:D. With only 90K on it I decided it was worth all the effort

Edited by GRP151
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On 10/8/2017 at 0:02 PM, GRP151 said:

Just bought this 2005 CDi a few days ago with this problem.

Motor will not turn over to start position 2.That's the first problem

Battery is fully charged with plenty of AMPS,  all gauges are working, brake lights responding, alternator not seized its running free,  primary fuel pump running when turned to start position.

Thinking the starter could be another problem (because the car has been sitting for a few years)  I lowered the motor to check it out. I disconnected the main battery from the car and used a portable booster battery to connect directly to the starter, for this test, and the starter worked. (I did this in case there was a short in the wiring and did not want to experiment with it this way)

I replaced the actuator with one that I know is working, still no start and 3 Bars are laughing at me!

 

I opened the SAM Unit to investigate the circuit board and as I looked closely I could see cracks in the folded part of the board.I tried to solder it but it was too brittle even after applying heat to soften it.

I had another SAM unit from another car and swapped the computer portion into this one and the have same results. Three bars from Willy still there!

 

 

Now I'm going to energize the Blue wire to the solenoid and see if it will start. I hope the injectors are getting pulse signal (I have no way of testing that yet)

I'll be back with some results. Until then, all comments appreciated!

 

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Thanks! this info solved my problem. Cracked board!! Must be planned obsolescence !

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