stickman007

No communication with ESP Module, 3 bars of death - SOLVED

27 posts in this topic

SOLVE: read post #32

 

I'm currently experiencing a 3 bar of death issue, but nothing seems to line up with what people are experiencing. Now I have to eat humble pie and look for ideas from CsC.

 

Though there seems to be an overwhelming amount of info with 3 bars, I'm sure this is related, but no sure how.

 

- no communication with ESP Module via STAR (can't even initialize...it will say that the module is not getting any power or not part of the system) - all fuses are good

- ESP lights will turn on and then off after a few seconds on the display - normal

- unable to move actuator or gear changes even when forcing it with STAR (seems like no power going to actuator either)

- unable to re-teach transmission adaptation

- unable to crank starter via STAR

- actuator/gear position/rpm/gear motor harness does not seem to have any damages visually (dealership replaced/repaired not too long ago), no corrosion on the connectors

 

I'm in the process of tracing/testing one wire at a time....is there a fusible link somewhere I'm missing? Will be tracing wires for the next little bit starting with the ESP.

Will be bench testing gear position sensor, and gear motor probably tomorrow

 

Confirmed that SE Drive is good via STAR

Confirmed that transmission is not seized

Confirmed that no corrosion on ebox - in fact is was already conformal coated

Checked grounding cable is good in the engine, from the battery

 

In m understand:

- position gear sensor will cause 3 bars, but transmission will still attempt to change gear

- wrong light bulbs or corrosion on lighting harness will cause 3 bars, but car will still start and be able to change gear

- tranny rpm sensor, actuator punch through fork and reluctor rings can cause 3 bars, but once again, car will start, and then log 3 bar code

Edited by stickman007

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Did a continuity test on the harness from ECU to actuator/gear position sensor/rpm sensor/gear motor...all good. Tested all the grounding wires to the ECU...also good. Removed the loom to visually inspect the wires too.

 

Bench tested gear position sensor as per evilution's instructions and also meet the specs: pin1&3 = 3.95kOhms, pin1&2 and 3&2 both varies smoothly from 1.1-4.9kOhms

 

Will bench test gear motor and actuator (not likely as I've swapped with a working on) tomorrow.

 

How disappointing to test every single wire to that harness only to find it all working?

 

@GPR151: I hope so? hahahaha, so that if one of us solve this, then its done! What Xentry version and multiplexer are you using? pm me if you need help setting up your STAR.

 

Edited by stickman007

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I can see you have a problem with gear position sensor.  Either sensor internals corroded due to water ingress or the usual cable problem.

 

Gear position sensor has an o-ring seal to stop water getting in but transmission casing corrodes and that is how water gets in.  A good preventative cure is to periodically remove sensor, clean seal area and apply protective grease.

 

By the way, this sensor used to be made in the UK.  Now made in the far east like everything else.

 

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Did you say earlier that you swapped a different SAM into the car?

 

Display, SAM, ECU all have to match up...otherwise car won't start. You can "swap" parts, but you have to initialize and program it, and I've heard the the mileage on the display will go wonky.

 

Where you able to talk to ESP when the gear position sensor was bad? I should try swapping in a working one on mine, but it did pass the bench test.

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Speedo, Sam and engine ecu must all be matched or you’ll get nothing showing in odo. 

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I bet you still won’t get mutch showing in instrumentation display since you have N1100 fault. 

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I swapped gear position sensor and gear motor today....still not able to do a teach-in :( Same symptoms as before, nothing changed.

 

I removed the gear motor and stuck my finger in there; I was able to move the gear, so the transmission is not seized?)

I also was able to use a pry bar and confirm that the clutch is not seized.

 

I guess I will keep tracing wires and start doing a voltage drop test on each wire. Seems to me, no power is getting to my actuator or gear motor at all.

Edited by stickman007

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3 hours ago, NFB said:

What does "mutch" mean? Is that German or Scottish?

 

noun
historical
 
  1. a linen cap, especially one worn by older women or children.

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1 hour ago, GRP151 said:

PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

Wasn't wiring,

wasn't SAM

wasn't connector

wasn't bulb

 

It's so stupid ...why they would offer this option?

 

Can you guess what it was?

Gear position sensor?

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2 hours ago, GRP151 said:

PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

Wasn't wiring,

wasn't SAM

wasn't connector

wasn't bulb

 

It's so stupid ...why they would offer this option?

 

Can you guess what it was?

 

parking brake switch?

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Or, if you didn't want to have to change the H7 bulbs as often when they're used

for both headlight and DRL functions. I replaced our 5W bulbs (directly above the

H7's) with a Samsung LED bulb. Then it was simply a matter of turning the headlight

switch to the first position and you had DRL's which, showed up better  as

they were 6500K and didn't burn out which was a big benefit for me!:rolleyes:

 

This is the same principle our 453 ED uses. The DRL's are an LED bar at the bottom

of the headlamp and the actual lights don't come on until the auto sensor tells them to.

Edited by lebikerboy

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2 hours ago, GRP151 said:

 

 

Someone previously disable the headlights this way. Why would this even be an option?

 

 

My understanding is that DRLs are not mandatory in Europe.

To meet the standard here they opted for full headlights all the time. This burns out bulbs and the pin in the SAM.

The Euro turn signal mod frees up the fog light position allowing fog lights to be added or DRLs.

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He means if you return the turn signals to the headlight housing as they are in Europe, you can use the "Canadian" turn signal housing in the grille, with an LED bulb (or whatever) as your daytime running lights, or replace them with fog lights or a different DRL light/housing.

Edited by booneylander

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Thanks for the info with regards to the DRL and fog.

 

BUT....back to the 3 bar issue.

 

I did a bit of brainstorming and it came to me that the no communication with ESP might be a separate issue. Similarly to what I noticed on GRP151's pics of DAS quick menu, due to a different SAM unit installed, the ECU may simply be not coded for the ESP for the given year (2 style for ESP system depending on manufacturing date). Besides, GRP151 was able to clear the 3 bar even without the communication with ESP - so therefore I will continue to focus on the 3 bars for now.

 

I did a bit of back to the basics approach. I had a hunch that no power was getting to the gear motor nor the actuator. Naturally I checked the fuse 30 which was good. I took a test light to confirm that power was there on each post of the fuse. The next, I moved to the N11-4 pin2 to see if power was going through and to my surprise, no power (with ignition 1)! So something is telling the SAM that it was not okay to send power to to the entire gear system (not good news, but finally a direct clue to the problem). As I started testing different possible transmission related wires, I came across N11-2 pin7 wire (blue) that was suppose to be constant live according to evilution's SAM pinout. As soon as I use my test light to check for voltage, not only did the light came on, but I heard a relay clicked. To confirm my suspicion that the ECU was somehow not letting the SAM turn on transmission relay, i checked for the continuity of N11-2 pin7, which is suppose to be directly connected to the ECU pin111 (still not sure which is which on the connector), but I tested every single blue wire and did not get continuity. Could this be my the cause of my problem? A simple broken/shorted wire?

 

I will try to do a bit more research and maybe brave enough to jump the "blue" wire directly and see if problem will be solve.

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SOLVED!

 

So, it was the N11-2 pin7 wire that caused my 3 bar of death. I do not think this has been ever been recorded anywhere.

Basically the wire that the ECU grounds to turn on the gear system was broken, resulting in the ECU thinking that something is wrong with the transmission because it won't "work" when it tries to "move" components.

 

Here's the logic to the problem.

1) I knew that the SAM contained a gear system relay

2) if N11-4 pin2 does not receive power even if fuse 30 is good, then it must be the relay not turning on

3) started testing all the gear system related wires and found that N11-2 pin7 that was suppose to be constant live turns the gear system relay on in the SAM

4) confirm that there is no continuity from N11-2 pin7 to ECU pin111

5) connect a wire directly from N11-2 pin7 to ECU pin111

6) teach-in transmission adaptation

7) teach-in clutch actuator

8) no more 3 bar on display

 

Resources:

Evilution's 700cc ECU pinout

FQ101's SAM pinout (I found it better than Evilution)

Found this diagram online to confirm ECU pin number:

aan.jpg

 

I still haven't located the actual break point in the wire, but at least the 3 bar is solved for now and car is running.

 

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I haven't tidy up anything yet. Just basically jumped the wire by opening the sheath carefully with an utility knife on either side.

 

In the past, I will just remove the pin, solder the new wire in, shrink tube the area, reinsert the pin back to connector on either side. As far as running the wire, I will probably run along the driver side floor and around to where the harness goes into the engine; will protect it with some plastic loom or mesh. Will post some pics as I go along.

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Crazy busy!

 

The car was finally finished last Saturday. I ended up running the wire along the side of the main harness where it normally runs under the SE drive. The owners were so happy that the car ran because the dealership told them that they needed a new SAM, (this was after they already replaced an actuator, and ECU).

 

The no communication with ESP was confirmed due to mismatched equipment code. As soon as I plugged the original SAM/Dash/ECU, I was able to communicate with it.

 

Found another cause for 3 bars that I haven't seen anywhere. I accidentally shorted the 12v wire (pin5 of the EGR connector) while trying the hide the EGR emulator because I was careless and in a hurry. The car immediately gave me a 3 bar, and started beeping (engine still runs). Traced it back to the 10amp fuse 9 on the SAM. Replaced, the fuse, and the car was fine.

 

So much to learn on these little cars...

Edited by stickman007
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I was told the ECU was over $2400 and the actuator over $700

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The owners told me they've spent about $3k between the MB dealership and Pug City...I cannot confirm the authenticity of their story, but they did give me a spare ECU and actuator when they dropped off the car.

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I rather not share the cost, but it took me altogether 8hrs. That included fixing the corroded connector, exposing and tracing the wires, swapping parts, coding/teaching adaptations...etc. I also coded extra keys they had, and realigned the cabrio hatch that was not closing properly. 

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I charge in single or multiple pints of good ale. One pint for complete diagnostics. Another pint to do gear change adaptation or adjust clutch electronically. Multiple pints to set clutch manually since bolts are usually seized and require oxy acetylene to free.  

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