stickman007

No communication with ESP Module, 3 bars of death - SOLVED

34 posts in this topic

Posted (edited) · Report post

SOLVE: read post #32

 

I'm currently experiencing a 3 bar of death issue, but nothing seems to line up with what people are experiencing. Now I have to eat humble pie and look for ideas from CsC.

 

Though there seems to be an overwhelming amount of info with 3 bars, I'm sure this is related, but no sure how.

 

- no communication with ESP Module via STAR (can't even initialize...it will say that the module is not getting any power or not part of the system) - all fuses are good

- ESP lights will turn on and then off after a few seconds on the display - normal

- unable to move actuator or gear changes even when forcing it with STAR (seems like no power going to actuator either)

- unable to re-teach transmission adaptation

- unable to crank starter via STAR

- actuator/gear position/rpm/gear motor harness does not seem to have any damages visually (dealership replaced/repaired not too long ago), no corrosion on the connectors

 

I'm in the process of tracing/testing one wire at a time....is there a fusible link somewhere I'm missing? Will be tracing wires for the next little bit starting with the ESP.

Will be bench testing gear position sensor, and gear motor probably tomorrow

 

Confirmed that SE Drive is good via STAR

Confirmed that transmission is not seized

Confirmed that no corrosion on ebox - in fact is was already conformal coated

Checked grounding cable is good in the engine, from the battery

 

In m understand:

- position gear sensor will cause 3 bars, but transmission will still attempt to change gear

- wrong light bulbs or corrosion on lighting harness will cause 3 bars, but car will still start and be able to change gear

- tranny rpm sensor, actuator punch through fork and reluctor rings can cause 3 bars, but once again, car will start, and then log 3 bar code

Edited by stickman007

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I'm going to setup my Star machine tomorrow and see what it finds.

Its too wet in the yard right now with all this rain today to start snooping around.

One thing is for sure when I find out the culprit I'll be posting it.

It may just end up being the exact same problem your having?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Did a continuity test on the harness from ECU to actuator/gear position sensor/rpm sensor/gear motor...all good. Tested all the grounding wires to the ECU...also good. Removed the loom to visually inspect the wires too.

 

Bench tested gear position sensor as per evilution's instructions and also meet the specs: pin1&3 = 3.95kOhms, pin1&2 and 3&2 both varies smoothly from 1.1-4.9kOhms

 

Will bench test gear motor and actuator (not likely as I've swapped with a working on) tomorrow.

 

How disappointing to test every single wire to that harness only to find it all working?

 

@GPR151: I hope so? hahahaha, so that if one of us solve this, then its done! What Xentry version and multiplexer are you using? pm me if you need help setting up your STAR.

 

Edited by stickman007

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12 hours ago, stickman007 said:

Did a continuity test on the harness from ECU to actuator/gear position sensor/rpm sensor/gear motor...all good. Tested all the grounding wires to the ECU...also good. Removed the loom to visually inspect the wires too.

 

Bench tested gear position sensor as per evilution's instructions and also meet the specs: pin1&3 = 3.95kOhms, pin1&2 and 3&2 both varies smoothly from 1.1-4.9kOhms

 

Will bench test gear motor and actuator (not likely as I've swapped with a working on) tomorrow.

 

How disappointing to test every single wire to that harness only to find it all working?

 

@GPR151: I hope so? hahahaha, so that if one of us solve this, then its done! What Xentry version and multiplexer are you using? pm me if you need help setting up your STAR.

 

Hey stickman007

I started up the DAS software to try and isolate the problem area for my 3 Bars and No start issue

Its cold and windy at the moment and when things calm down I'm going to swap some parts from a working Smart to this one.

First with the gear position sensor. Then I will clear all the stored codes ( if I can figure it out) and repeat the test.

 

Attached is the info on my Star unit and the icons of the programs included in the purchase I made last year. I'm not sure if these error codes are related to my problem or perhaps when I swapped the computer module from the SAM unit other problems have arisen?

I'm still not completely familiar with the program so if you have some suggestions that would be appreciated.

Cheers!

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Do you know what the difference is in the column that shows  -F- and -f- is? Besides Fail. Is one worse than the other LOL!

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I can see you have a problem with gear position sensor.  Either sensor internals corroded due to water ingress or the usual cable problem.

 

Gear position sensor has an o-ring seal to stop water getting in but transmission casing corrodes and that is how water gets in.  A good preventative cure is to periodically remove sensor, clean seal area and apply protective grease.

 

By the way, this sensor used to be made in the UK.  Now made in the far east like everything else.

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I swapped the gear sensor with another and the 3 bars are gone!!:D

Engine spins to crank start but does not start.:(

Cleared the stored codes except for one that says the instrument cluster does not match with Sam control unit

 

I wish I knew the history of this car if there were other parts that were swapped by someone else creating this code.

 

 

Hopefully I'm getting closer to the solution:mellow:

00.png

Edited by GRP151

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Did you say earlier that you swapped a different SAM into the car?

 

Display, SAM, ECU all have to match up...otherwise car won't start. You can "swap" parts, but you have to initialize and program it, and I've heard the the mileage on the display will go wonky.

 

Where you able to talk to ESP when the gear position sensor was bad? I should try swapping in a working one on mine, but it did pass the bench test.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Its possible I also unplugged and plugged in other connectors as I was investigating the problem. I had to reteach the gear selector before the 3 bars disappeared.

I did a few different things as so many -F- signs were noted in the diagnosis that perhaps the combination and reteaching removed the bars.

I was actually surprised the 3 bars did not show up when the reteach was completed. And even more when the motor cranked!;)

The motor sounds like it is spinning too freely as if it has no compression compared to the other cars I have.

Strangely no other code has come up except this instrument cluster report.

 

I'm going to put the previous gear sensor back to see if the 3 bars return now that I know I can reteach it to remove that problem.

Now that the motor is cranking and the 3 bars are gone the odometer appears then disappears showing - - - - - - when cranking.

How do I solve this one?

 

Also in this post here...

I desoldered the SAM module from the original SAM unit and installed it into one that was pulled from another car.

There are no chips that I cold see except for all the relays and fuse sockets to mate the unit but its possible there is a connection somewhere?

Perhaps the previous mechanic played around with the Instrument cluster?

 

I should note that the tachometer and clock were missing from this car when I got it, perhaps never installed? It is a Passion model and I doubt it was ordered without.

I will open up the instrument cluster tomorrow perhaps other clues will appear.

 

I'm hoping I won't have to repair and reinstall this module back into the cracked circuit board that I pulled it out of to solve this problem

 

Time for more reading!!

 

Edited by GRP151
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Speedo, Sam and engine ecu must all be matched or you’ll get nothing showing in odo. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I didn't open up the Instrument cluster just went through a Teach in on the Star and used some quick start spray.

The car is now running so the 3 ( speedo, Sam and ECU) must be matched. Star machine says otherwise. Did the test in another Smart with same report. Dealer usually uses this excuse to get out of warranty claiming speedo's been tampered with! Had that happen to a Chrysler Van I bought new in 1990 and in the 4th year of ownership Dealer refused to honor warranty claiming tampering!! Really made me upset. Never bought another Chrysler since and never will!

Edited by GRP151

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I bet you still won’t get mutch showing in instrumentation display since you have N1100 fault. 

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I swapped gear position sensor and gear motor today....still not able to do a teach-in :( Same symptoms as before, nothing changed.

 

I removed the gear motor and stuck my finger in there; I was able to move the gear, so the transmission is not seized?)

I also was able to use a pry bar and confirm that the clutch is not seized.

 

I guess I will keep tracing wires and start doing a voltage drop test on each wire. Seems to me, no power is getting to my actuator or gear motor at all.

Edited by stickman007

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On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 3:06 AM, tolsen said:

I bet you still won’t get mutch showing in instrumentation display since you have N1100 fault. 

What does "mutch" mean? Is that German or Scottish?

 

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On 10/15/2017 at 3:06 AM, tolsen said:

I bet you still won’t get mutch showing in instrumentation display since you have N1100 fault. 

 

Will that be Cash or Bitcoin?

 

All instrumention working perfectly

Drove the car for about an hour. EGR code came up. Cleaned the EGR. Code is cleared.

Drove for another half hour no codes everything working perfect,,,,except for....

 

This was a problem from the very beginning during the 3 bars issue and no start.

 

Low beam lights not working? DRL

7.5 amp Fuses are good.

No power to fuse holder position 22 and 23?

No problem with connector N11-3, all terminals look good no overheated or damaged connections

 

 

 

 

Edited by GRP151

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PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

Wasn't wiring,

wasn't SAM

wasn't connector

wasn't bulb

 

It's so stupid ...why they would offer this option?

 

Can you guess what it was?

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3 hours ago, NFB said:

What does "mutch" mean? Is that German or Scottish?

 

noun
historical
 
  1. a linen cap, especially one worn by older women or children.

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1 hour ago, GRP151 said:

PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

Wasn't wiring,

wasn't SAM

wasn't connector

wasn't bulb

 

It's so stupid ...why they would offer this option?

 

Can you guess what it was?

Gear position sensor?

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2 hours ago, GRP151 said:

PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

Wasn't wiring,

wasn't SAM

wasn't connector

wasn't bulb

 

It's so stupid ...why they would offer this option?

 

Can you guess what it was?

 

parking brake switch?

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There is an option to disable the Daytime running lights. DRL

 

To disable it you hold the unlock button on the FOB at the same time as pulling the high beam lever.

 

To enable it you hold the lock button (while in the car with the doors closed) and pull the high beam lever again.

 

That's what it was Smartwrench:D gave the correct answer!

 

Someone previously disable the headlights this way. Why would this even be an option?

 

My only guess is ,if you wanted to secretly follow someone at night and remain unseen!:ph34r:

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Or, if you didn't want to have to change the H7 bulbs as often when they're used

for both headlight and DRL functions. I replaced our 5W bulbs (directly above the

H7's) with a Samsung LED bulb. Then it was simply a matter of turning the headlight

switch to the first position and you had DRL's which, showed up better  as

they were 6500K and didn't burn out which was a big benefit for me!:rolleyes:

 

This is the same principle our 453 ED uses. The DRL's are an LED bar at the bottom

of the headlamp and the actual lights don't come on until the auto sensor tells them to.

Edited by lebikerboy

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2 hours ago, GRP151 said:

 

 

Someone previously disable the headlights this way. Why would this even be an option?

 

 

My understanding is that DRLs are not mandatory in Europe.

To meet the standard here they opted for full headlights all the time. This burns out bulbs and the pin in the SAM.

The Euro turn signal mod frees up the fog light position allowing fog lights to be added or DRLs.

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