cloggedb

Will not crank

34 posts in this topic

So last year a bought  a 2006 smart car, had a seized alternator. Thanks to the fine folks here I got it running and sold the car in the summer.

 

Since than I have missed the smart car, so a few days ago I bought another! This one is a 2006 CDI, and it does not crank. I think this is caused by a bad solenoid connection on the started as I hear the Sam relay click but no cranking, Does anyone have a good photo of where this solenoid is so i can try jiggling the connection before i drop the motor in -10C weather!

 

Thanks again to all the help this forum has given me! 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont have pictures but last month i had to wiggle mine and was able to do it right in the parking lot with a flashlight and a very long 1/4 inch extension

 

you can see it from the top way down past the harness that feeds the injectors and glow plugs..best to do in the dark with a flashlight to see down there

 

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK so I think im blind. I cannot find the starter when im looking down on the engine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking from the engine bay it is on the right hand side. Its buried by the AC compressor, water inlet and alternator.

You really need to drop the engine to access it.

The dealer charges 5-6 hrs to replace. Its a bitch of a job.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to lower the motor to access the starter. It is tightly tucked directly in the center of the motor behind the water pump and above the alternator.

Lowering bolts are needed to assist to make re installing easier . You can also push start the car if all the electronics are working. Put it in 2nd gear.

The larger Blue wire in the wiring harness above the inter cooler is the solenoid wire. You will need to open  the wire loom to locate it.

If you are getting  power there your solenoid or starter is the problem. If you are not getting power then your SAM unit maybe the culprit.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The SAM output to the starter solenoid is on connector N11-6 Pin 1.

 

Measuring the voltage there when starting the car would determine if the SAM is OK or if it is starter related. 

SAMconfig.jpg.309a16031143e428aa257aa6420981ae.jpg.0d6e915c713aee9f922f988cea7e65bb.jpg

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

yes you need to lower the engine to change the starter

 

but if you just need to jiggle the connection it is completely accessible from above with a long tool such as an extra long screwdriver (or like i said i used above a long 1/4 drive extension)..and some patience

 

...its just really hard to see if youre not sure what youre looking for

 

the solenoid has a simple male terminal and the wire you want to jiggle is a plastic connector with a simple female connector inside it...

 

its a tight spot ...i think you have to look thru the intake runners .

 

the top of the solenoid will be very near the level where the head meets the block...the solenoid connector youre looking to wiggle will be almost centered with center cylindore bore

 

here is a picture posted elsewhere on this forum that might help guide you if you decide to try looking again 

 

 

4054768_e686e6688f1801e38a765a6025bd7eb2_wm.jpg

Edited by LooseLugNuts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Injector circuit could also be an issue if suddenly stopped after checking all else.

i

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can reach in by removing rhs rear wheel arch liner. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, tolsen said:

You can reach in by removing rhs rear wheel arch. 

 

thanks..thats good to know

 

i still need to get in there to clean and put some grease on my connector ....the last wiggle is still working good but i know it wont last long 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So i was working on the car a bit this weekend. With the wheel off and looking at the alternator should i be able to see the Starter or am i looking for just with my hand? It stated to rain right as I started so i didnt get much time.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

probably hand only since he used the word "reach"

 

and probably not with just wheel off since he said "by removing the right hand side wheel arch"....by wheel arch he probably means the inner fender plastic shield

 

 

i know for sure you can reach in from top of engine to tap on the connector with a tool ...ive done it myself ..not just guessing on that one

Edited by LooseLugNuts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, cloggedb said:

Alright. Finally a nice day. Wheel off wheel Arch removed. This is what I'm looking at.

 

https://m.imgur.com/a/mbTlm

 

I found a wire that just seems to be hanging out. The last IMG....

UTVhC9i.jpg

Brown cable with female spade terminal is ground wire for the in-line fuel filter.  The in-line filters fits in the cradle seen in your photo above but was not fitted in Canadian 450s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jammed my hand in and I believe I found the wire. Above and to the right of the alternator if I'm looking into the wheel. Going to try and give this a shake. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just double checked on mine. With wheel arch liner removed, also disconnect the two bolts that secure glow plug relay to sub frame. Lift glow plug relay up a wee bit and reach in with one arm to get to starter. 

Starter solenoid connector is black and sits transversely. You can also wiggle this connector from top with your finger tips. 

To locate, identify by pass hose from thermostat to v piece at water pump. Connector sits under middle of this hose. 

Using a suitable straw, apply good non wd40 penetration oil to internals of connector, easiest from the right. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heres some pics to show the wire. You can just reach it when the glow plug controller is disconnected. Flashlight is pointing at the connector - black, to the right of the rusted nut.

 

I had a no start last week - playing with the connector was only a temporary solution. Ultimately had to drop the engine and replace the female connector - problem solved. 

Couldn't do the job otherwise.

 

P1040902.JPG

P1040901.JPG

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lucky for me I first had this no crank problem many many years ago in 2005. Wiggled connector to start engine and drive home. Then lowered engine sufficiently for access. Cleaned connector and applied protective lithium grease. 

Have since checked and maintained this connector whenever engine has been lowered and have not experienced any further bad contact. 

 

PS. Thanks for posting the good informative photos smart142. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, smart142 said:

Heres some pics to show the wire. You can just reach it when the glow plug controller is disconnected. Flashlight is pointing at the connector - black, to the right of the rusted nut.

 

I had a no start last week - playing with the connector was only a temporary solution. Ultimately had to drop the engine and replace the female connector - problem solved. 

Couldn't do the job otherwise.

 

P1040902.JPG

P1040901.JPG

 

Couldn't do the job otherwise? Thats HOGWASH! It just shows your limited understanding of electronics 142!

I've fixed many cars by spraying a mix of  WD40 and tranny fluid in a pump bottle directed to the electrical terminal of the solenoid. Let it sit over night and the contacts that have 'CORROSION' (I know this is a new word for some of you) will start to allow the contacts to ( here's another new word for you 'CONDUCT' electrical current through to the solenoid.

A half decent mechanic would NEVER let these contacts get this way, he would ALWAYS maintain good electical connection by spraying an oily solution on ALL electrical contacts. It is the best way to repel corrosive fluids like salt water or galvanic action.

 

For those of you who don't know what that means I've posted the definition here...Galvanic corrosion (also called bimetallic corrosion) is an electrochemical process in which one metal corrodes preferentially when it is in electrical contact with another, in the presence of an electrolyte.  

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main problem is of course water getting into the connector and lack of access to carry out maintenance. Often the corrosion is so bad that it won’t clean up. Renewal is then the only option. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And when that happens I would like to meet the person who can change that connector without dropping the engine for access. As my pictures show it is not an easy place to get to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, NFB said:

Couldn't do the job otherwise? Thats HOGWASH! It just shows your limited understanding of electronics 142!

I've fixed many cars by spraying a mix of  WD40 and tranny fluid in a pump bottle directed to the electrical terminal of the solenoid. Let it sit over night and the contacts that have 'CORROSION' (I know this is a new word for some of you) will start to allow the contacts to ( here's another new word for you 'CONDUCT' electrical current through to the solenoid.

A half decent mechanic would NEVER let these contacts get this way, he would ALWAYS maintain good electical connection by spraying an oily solution on ALL electrical contacts. It is the best way to repel corrosive fluids like salt water or galvanic action.

 

For those of you who don't know what that means I've posted the definition here...Galvanic corrosion (also called bimetallic corrosion) is an electrochemical process in which one metal corrodes preferentially when it is in electrical contact with another, in the presence of an electrolyte.  

 

 

 

From this picture I see there is no A/C pump on this motor to obstruct spray lubrication. With no obstruction oil spraying the area it is an excellent idea and method for corrosion prevention. I swear by it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, smart142 said:

And when that happens I would like to meet the person who can change that connector without dropping the engine for access. As my pictures show it is not an easy place to get to.

 

I have made a specialty tool that resembles a pair of needle nose pliers. It is perfectly suited to pull off the spade connector from the solenoid, in this example, its about 30 inches in length. The design is much similar to the attached picture except very thin and easily handled. It truly is an amazing tool. I am just showing one that is similar as my modified one is awaiting patent. Once the patent is complete I can direct anyone who is interested to the distributor for purchase!  

long nose.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

    Chatbox
    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More