Tempted by cheap fortwos

[RobCDI 18]

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/vernon/cheap-diesel-smart-car/1355534875?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

$2000 for a 150,000km good speced fortwo.

It needs new injectors ($900 ebay, possibly sell the old ones for $200), that + a full service should be around $1100.

$3100 for a top spec cdi with lots of new parts

For $3500 you can get a 150,000km rebuilt base spec 

 

If i had a friend that was looking for a great commuter car it would tell them to get it

 

Based on local prices mine would sell for $5500

[MikeT 744]

Frankly, if they still run, it's not worth selling a cdi right now because the utility value exceeds market value by a large margin.  They're nearly free.  Good luck to anyone selling one and asking for $5000+.

[smartzuuk 167]

I've seen that car, but in all seriousness, I'd be at $1000ish on it...

 

I don't think cdi's are typically fetching $5500 - there are exceptions of course ie - low kms, canada1's, nice cabriolet's, etc....

 

People are 'asking' even up to $7500 for a run of the mill cdi with fancy bling wheels - not gonna happen

 

In a year or two I'll bet 451 cabriolets will be in the $3500 range - some are already as low as $4500 with not too many km

[RobCDI 18]

Good point, but 451s take 91 gas($0.20-$0.30 more expensive per L) and get worse fuel economy than a honda fit(almost double what CDI's get). Im driving in extreme heat/cold, up steep hills daily, in stop and go traffic and im still getting 4.5L diesel/100km. I have also noticed the interior build quality for the 451's is fractionally worse than the 450's. Its not a huge difference but in 5 years the difference will become more apparent.   

 

Consider supply and demand in various locations, price will vary. For a rebuilt base spec currently $3500, and a normal red/silver one $5400.(-10% for negotiation) Those are the only two options and they are both 100km+ away. Mine has every option, less km, better colour, works 100%, recent full service(ALL fluids and filters). Mine is not for sale but considering the other cars available; $5500 sale price is fair. You can buy a good 451 for around $4000(in vancouver) but it is a much different car

[smartzuuk 167]

 

 

Just missed a $400 2006 passion cab, all silver and looked complete...

 

So yes, cheap cdi's are very tempting

 

 

 

 

 

[Huronlad 186]

3 hours ago, RobCDI said:

Good point, but 451s take 91 gas($0.20-$0.30 more expensive per L) and get worse fuel economy than a honda fit(almost double what CDI's get). Im driving in extreme heat/cold, up steep hills daily, in stop and go traffic and im still getting 4.5L diesel/100km. I have also noticed the interior build quality for the 451's is fractionally worse than the 450's. Its not a huge difference but in 5 years the difference will become more apparent.   

 

 

To combat the misinformation.  With 7 years and nearly 190k km on my 451 there are no interior build quality issues to be found.  I only use 0.7L/100km more fuel than you on average and about 1L/100km more then I did in my 450.  My 451 is reliable, my 450 was not.

[Willys 747]

My second smart is a 2005 with sun roof and power mirrors, but doesn't have the pod guages on the dash which I like.  It was $1000   but it needs both wheel cog rings  and the head liner is starting to delaminate......which I havce learned from a past truck not that easy to repar if left too long?

Any suggestions on the best way to restick it back up with success..?

 

[smartzuuk 167]

I found the 451 to be a very reliable car, although, the FE, especially when factoring in Premium, is less than stellar for the size.

 

Yeah, about 1 L/100 more than the cdi at comparable speeds, but that Premium 'premium' didn't do it for me.

 

I would absolutely consider a 451 cab at some point!

A 2010 or later just to avoid some of the 08-09 issues

[MikeT 744]

Jenn averages in the mid 5s in her Fit 6 speed....on regular gas.  Direct injection for ya.

Edited June 11, 2018 by MikeT

[niteshooter 30]

Out this way the 450's are running a bit higher, downside out here is if they were winter driven as the salt/brine we are using is really killing cars. As an example we had 3 Saturns 2x99 and 1x00. My 00 has never been winter driven while the other two have. Huge difference in terms of rust underneath the cars even though all were regularly oil sprayed. Brake lines on one 99 rusted out both front and rear, gas tank straps rusted out, and flex pipes were replaced multiple times. All of the Saturns have/had over 300,000km. Only one left in the fleet is my 00 though the clear coat has delaminated on the upper door trim and rear bumper. My Saturn with aftermarket SS free flow exhaust and Injen CAI gets slightly better fuel economy than the smart, but it is not a Cabriolet! But compared to the Ram Rebel the smart is really great on gas and so much easier to park on trips into the city. Wife just bought a used Corolla because the cost of the car = how much she projected spending on gas for 1 year. 

 

My 2010 451 I thought was in pretty good shape rust wise until we dropped the motor and then I discovered all the spots that I could not see on the subframe that showed signs of rust. I had thought the car was not winter driven based on what I could see when I bought it but after that not so sure. Where my main concerns are were the starter motor and wiring in that area. 

 

I have mixed feelings on how reliable my 451 is after blowing the head gasket, though part of that is my fault for not making the connection that my fan belt had failed. Still I look at my smart in the same way I look at my 86 CJ7, that it could be more failure prone then say our minivan. (ouch). But realistically it is an 8 year old car. 

 

I have agonized over another cheap smart possibly a 450 Cab for a while. A few of the downsides, though are reliability, granted having followed Glen's trip out to Newfoundland and others who have done long runs with theirs I am a bit more encouraged. Still after blowing up mine I'm more cautious then I was when I first bought my 451. 

 

Running premium is rather expensive, er well the tank is rather small so that offsets the pain of say filling up something like the Ram..... for me premium is my preferred fuel because I let some of my cars sit over the winter. For example I spent $$ last summer having to replace the fuel pump, and some of the hoses on my 86 T-Bird TC because I let some old regular ethanol loaded fuel sit for to long and even with stabilizer that didn't help. We were shocked to see how much damage the fuel did and how much of a PITA it was to resolve since I had a fairly full tank. So now the older T-Bird and Jeep only get ethanol free premium and I make sure I run a tank through each year. FYI I used to let the cars sit for long periods prior to ethanol being added to our gas with no ill effects, but never again.

 

But if I found a good condition 450 cab especially one that was more optioned out then say a Pure I'd probably pull the trigger.

[Leadwing 565]

1 hour ago, niteshooter said:

. ........  So now the older T-Bird and Jeep only get ethanol free premium and I make sure I run a tank through each year. FYI I used to let the cars sit for long periods prior to ethanol being added to our gas with no ill effects, but never again.

 

Ethanol free fuel is available in regular fuel as well.  I use it in my (almost) 30 year old Honda Civic and 43 year old Honda Goldwing with no issues.  I also use it in garden equipment such as lawn tractors, mowers weed whackers and for the winter, snow blowers. No point in using premium fuel in garden maintenance machines.  Why pay extra for something it doesn't need?   Basically, anything that is going to sit for long periods of time in a state of hibernation.

 

Meanwhile, back to the original topic .......

[niteshooter 30]

13 minutes ago, Leadwing said:

 

Ethanol free fuel is available in regular fuel as well.  I use it in my (almost) 30 year old Honda Civic and 43 year old Honda Goldwing with no issues.  I also use it in garden equipment such as lawn tractors, mowers weed whackers and for the winter, snow blowers. No point in using premium fuel in garden maintenance machines.  Why pay extra for something it doesn't need?   Basically, anything that is going to sit for long periods of time in a state of hibernation.

 

Whoa, who sells this? The normal suspects locally, Shell, Petro Can, Esso all have ethanol in their regular.

 

Ok looked at the link, the Esso in Waterloo has regular ethanol free. Wonder how they did that, given it would have to come from the refinery that way and nobody else on the list seems to have any. Granted might not save much having to drive out there from Pickering! Though I haven't been to that Army Surplus store in Kitchener in a while (one with the plane (spitfire?) on the roof). Costco is about 20 cents per litre cheaper than everyone else down here.

Edited June 11, 2018 by niteshooter
head scratching

[Leadwing 565]

See the list on the link.  Locally for me, it's an ESSO station in the outskirts of St Thomas.

 

This link will tell you where all the stations are in Ontario

 

[niteshooter 30]

Interesting, so I should be checking Esso stations down this way...... nothing on the list for my area but then they also didn't list your St Thomas station.

[Leadwing 565]

PM sent.  The ESSO station I was referring to IS listed, but for some reason, the chart only lists premium, but they DO sell regular fuel as well

 

[niteshooter 30]

Oh ok, thanks. Just replied to your PM. So that is interesting it looks like Esso does a run on non ethanol regular. Definitely going to check the local Esso stations and see whether we have any down here. My guess is I have to hit a small non corporate station maybe just a bit further out of Toronto.

[darren 192]

Tempting to buy... instant buyer's remorse when it comes to repairing and maintaining them.  

[Chopper 264]

I've just bought a 39,000 mile petrol 0.7 W450 for £1300. It's just had £850 spent on the engine, so I'm fingers crossed that all the major expenses are behind it....for at least a few months 

[smartzuuk 167]

that sounds like a very decent runner!!

[MikeT 744]

Sounds good!

 

[Chopper 264]

Thanks guys.  It ticks like the proverbial swiss watch.  The 450 is very  cheap over here now, and  used parts and even entire spares cars are plentitful.

 

450 diesels aren't so common here and tend to sell for a lot more.  That may change as there's a backlash against diesel in the UK and Europe due to the deaths that nitrous oxides emissions causes, reckoned to be linked to 25,000 deaths a year in the UK.  Foul play by the likes of VW Group haven't helped, and the bottom has dropped out of the diesel market overnight as punitive taxation and banning from many towns looms, so 450 diseasel prices will probably drop quite soon as well.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Chopper