Question Regarding Seized Alternator

[smartdriver 49]

The alternator is seized on my 2005.

 

It is my understanding that it might be possible to unseize it by removing the right rear wheel and wheel arch and applying torque on the alternator shaft with a 22 mm socket wrench and breaker bar.

 

My question is this.

 

While examining the engine compartment with the top hatch removed i can see the alternator shaft and an open view to the pavement below. If the car is placed on a hoist, is it possible to apply torque to the alternator shaft without removing the rear wheel and wheel arch?

 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by smartdriver

[tolsen 630]

I usually only remove plastic splash guard on right side of engine, then work alternator nut with a special ring spanner. 

[ian122778 5]

Mine seizes every winter as it isn't driven.  I'm with tolsen. I remove the splash guard and fit along sicky bar on it, takes only a few minutes this way

[smartdriver 49]

Sorry if I need more clarification.

 

As I mentioned, when looking downward through the engine compartment hatch I can see pavement below the alternator shaft.

 

Would it be possible to use a standard 22 mm spanner from underneath the car without the necessity for putting it on a hoist, without the necessity of removing the rear wheel and without the necessity of removing the wheel arch?

[tolsen 630]

A standard ring spanner won’t reach nut as recessed inside pulley. 

[smartdriver 49]

16 hours ago, tolsen said:

A standard ring spanner won’t reach nut as recessed inside pulley. 

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I am getting closer to finding a solution to my problem, one post at a time.

 

If I have a ring spanner with an extended throat, is it possible to apply torque to the alternator shaft from underneath the car without putting the car on a hoist, without removing the rear wheel and without removing the wheel arch?

Edited August 6, 2018 by smartdriver

[smartdriver 49]

With the advice from tolsen, ian122778 and the help of an extremely competent mechanic, my seized alternator has been fixed.

 

Jacked up the rear of the car, removed the rear wheel and protective shroud and with the use of a special deep throat spanner applied torque to the alternator shaft to free it up.

 

An interesting thing then happened. After trying to start the car, the alternator still appeared to be seized. It became necessary to do a full 360 degree rotation of the alternator shaft with the spanner until all the debris between the rotor and stator was clear.

 

This has been an interesting adventure for me because of the conflicting advice I kept getting from outside sources. If it hadn't have been for this forum I would have been seeing a $1,000 charge for dropping the engine and replacing the alternator. I wonder how many others have had their alternator replaced unnecessarily?

 

The mechanic from whom I bought the car told me "No problem. My son just dropped the engine and replaced a seized alternator the other day".

 

Another mechanic felt that the alternator would be no good after it was unseized because the rotor would be damaged (somewhat analogous to a damaged front brake rotor when rusted).

 

The diagram below shows the internals of a typical alternator. The alternator in the smart is open frame so that moisture can get in between the rotor and the stator and cause rust build up which can seize the alternator.

 

On another smart on which this happened I got lucky and was able to free it by pushing the car in gear down my driveway and then starting it with a fully charged battery.

 

The best part is that with the rust removal, the clearance between the rotor and stator has likely become larger. My first smart which I bought in 2007 and still own, had the problem early in the game, but even after 11 years of outside storage with no use for 2 years, it has not recurred.

 

For anyone whose car is turning over slowly when starting because of a seized alternator, before dropping the engine and replacing the alternator I would suggest trying to free it as proposed both by tolsen and ian122778.

Edited August 13, 2018 by smartdriver

[Thio 7]

Great news! I was wondering who the mechanic was that fixed your problem. I could use his help.

 

[smartdriver 49]

 

I would be happy to give you his name, but I would like to speak to him first.

 

I am presently using his services to sort out a ruptured brake line. It happened 4 months ago and the car has been sitting since. 

 

There was evidence of a pool of oil on the driveway just behind the passenger door, but there is no evidence of a problem in that area now. It turns out that the brake lines all go to the left side of the car.

 

I have just finished refilling the brake fluid reservoir and pumped the brakes. I am now looking to find out where it is leaking.

[Willys 747]

Does anyone simply spray their altenators with some sort of lubricant like WD40 etc to help keep them free of siezing...?  Just curious....I have quietened a squeaky bearing by doing so on other vehicles. Lasted a while so i could deal with the issue in better weather.

Just thinking outloud...?

[Willys 747]

1 minute ago, smartdriver said:

 

I would be happy to give you his name, but I would like to speak to him first.

 

I am presently using his services to sort out a ruptured brake line. It happened 4 months ago and the car has been sitting since. 

 

There was evidence of a pool of oil on the driveway just behind the passenger door, but there is no evidence of a problem in that area now. It turns out that the brake lines all go to the left side of the car.

 

I have just finished refilling the brake fluid reservoir and pumped the brakes. I am now looking to find out where it is leaking.

Are you sure it's brake fluid on the right side? 

 

[smartdriver 49]

9 minutes ago, Willys said:

Are you sure it's brake fluid on the right side? 

 

I had to do an emergency stop . The ABS came on and the next time I pressed the brake pedal there was nothing.

 

I had to drive home 20 km using the emergency brake and whatever was left by pushing the brake pedal to the floor.

 

When I got home I parked in my slanted driveway and the next day I noticed a small fresh puddle of oil just behind the passenger door. I assumed that it was brake fluid. At the present time it is still a mystery.

11 minutes ago, Willys said:

Does anyone simply spray their altenators with some sort of lubricant like WD40 etc to help keep them free of siezing...?  

 

tolsen has posted previously about coating his with some type of protectant. If my memory serves me correctly, he might have even shaved off some of the rotor to increase the gap between the rotor and stator.

Edited August 14, 2018 by smartdriver

[Willys 747]

Shaved off what? Where the casing gets too close to the what?  I can't see shaving anything else without harming the stator it'self..?  So if this is the case then it's not the bearings that are siezing right? Maybe a picture is in order from one to see where it is siezing together...?  That will help solve this issue......and it's easy to dismantle the stator really, just take your time and be patient.  Now I am interested in finding out from those who know and have seen this, where does it sieze, bearings or against the case?

 

Thanks.....all ears....

[tolsen 630]

Rust makes these alternators seize. Build up of surface rust on stator and rotor.  Wetting in oil prevents rust forming but the oil won't stay long on a fast spinning rotor.  I took my alternator apart, sanded down stator and  lightly shaved rotor on my lathe for increased clearance.  Varnished all in polyurethane varnish.  Has been problem free since 2006.

 

Never leave these alternator standing for more than a couple of weeks.  Three weeks is often enough for alternator to seize.

[smartdriver 49]

9 hours ago, Willys said:

Are you sure it's brake fluid on the right side? 

 

 

Covering the underside of the car are twp plastic covers, the smaller one in front.

 

Running across the rear of the front pan from one side to the other is a brake line and attached to it in the middle of the car with a nylon tie was an electrical cable.

 

The brake line had ruptured at the point where the nylon tie was attached.

 

In the rear plastic cover is a channel indentation running diagonally from left to right with it exiting just in front of the right rear wheel.

 

The brake fluid from the ruptured line had spilled into this indentation and because my car was parked nose up on a slanted driveway, the brake fluid exited just in front of the rear tire on the passenger side of the car.

Edited August 15, 2018 by smartdriver

[tolsen 630]

I only fit CuNiFe brake pipe. Same strength as steel pipe but does not rust. Use only brass pipe fittings. Those on the Smart are M10x1mm DIN male. 

Photo shows front pipes both old and new. The blue pipe bender is the best available for forming these pipes. 

CuNiFe pipes can be polished so they appear like gold. Will impress your mistress and whoever is carrying out the car safety test. 

[Thio 7]

What is the line size that you ordered? There are 2 different sizes coming out and going into the ABS unit. 

 

 

[smartdriver 49]

Thio:

 

I have sent you a PM