Winter Driving in a SMART...?

[Willys 747]

2 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Nokia, or Nokian  as they 're known now, are still going strong.  I ran Nokian Weatherproof boots on my  Ford last winter, and the little FWD Eurobox got me up a hill that defeated the LR4 that was trying to follow.  This year I can't be arsed.  If it snows that badly I won't go to work, and if work don't like it I'll give them my 28 days noticed of my intention to retire.

Yeh, but driving in the snow is have the fun.....you just need to get past the lousy days where it's just mucky and dirty, the fresh new snow days are excellent especially if you live in the country and don't have all the idiots trying to slide into you...lol. 

 

[Willys 747]

Just a question......would 165/65-15 tires not fit....on the rear at least and if we ran the same wheels on all 4 corners the same on the front?   

What is it that is stoping us runing the same wheels front and rear, yes I'm lazy and not going out to try it for myself yet....lets see if someone will give this extremely sensitive information freely first...lol.   Is it the need for spacers to set the wheel further out is the problem?  Just asking....Thank you....

Winter tires work far better at digging if narrow.....no not paper thin like the fronts but thinner.....meaning we may be able to use something like a 165/65-15 tire...????  Crank up that middle number and reduce the first to keep the outside dia. the same ....no?
Again thinking off the top of my head and outloud...lol

[tolsen 630]

Thanks guys. This thread just reminded me to purchase a second hand Webasto. Now is the time to buy it you want them cheap. 

[Willys 747]

OK, done it myself, time spent reading, and searching for other tire brands etc etc....so I'm back to basics...leave well enough alone...the bigest issue for me is fuel economy...lol.   I can easily get it down to 3.5 and lower as it stands....and I LIKE IT...!   Yes I am fully aware that will drop or climb fast  once the colder weather shows up and even more once the white stuff hits the ground.   I went searching exactly what I have also on both runing cars.....seems I have one set of mud and snows but the tread certainly doesn't seem capable of diging it's way out of a wet paper bag!    So....I'll see what happens....Hmmm...?  
As for that Wabasto heater, Hmmmm, not cheap is it?  WOW...!   So, this makes me think I'll stick with house powered heaters......as I will never leave car for that long of a time span without driving it one way or the other from home...lol.  Maybe a trip to Ottawa but all family have electricity, last time i checked...lol.    So, now ...what about a wind up roll of extension cord...lol.    Maybe mounted to the hitch...lol.  I do have a 3500lb winch....Hmmmm....maybe a great idea for possible recovery  from a ditch...?  Dang..the thoughts are endless.....lol.   Hmmm...?   The wife has ditched every car we have owned at least twice each.....so.....maybe it's my turn....there's always a first time for everything...lol.
Seriously the thought now is that manual by-pass switch for the anti skid etc safety crap just for emergency cases when you need to get them tires spinning..Hmmm...?

Can you tell I have far too much time on my hands...lol.

[Chopper 264]

Nokian Weatherproof boots are superb for fuel economy.  Well up there with a decent regular tyre.  It's remarkable really how good these tyres are, but I guess they use all sorts of science and stuff.

[Willys 747]

6 hours ago, Chopper said:

Nokian Weatherproof boots are superb for fuel economy.  Well up there with a decent regular tyre.  It's remarkable really how good these tyres are, but I guess they use all sorts of science and stuff.

It's the extra width that has me interested in rolling resistance etc etc....if it wasn't for this small factoid, lol....I'd have the wider booties on already......these pencil thin front tires look so silly and I have had more than my fair share about them already, funny enough...."why are the front tires so thin?"    Because they look so manly!!!      AUGH....!

[Chopper 264]

Shoot the haters down first opportunity. I get silly remarks when I cycle to work.  "Where's your helmet?" asked one idiot? "On the end of my c***", was my reply.  The pith taking suddenly stopped from that point on.

[Leadwing 565]

I'm quite satisfied with the Conti winter tires in the original sizes, but then I don't make a habit of wandering into "heavy snow country" in the middle of winter on a regular basis.  I believe that HuronLad uses a narrower size for winter.  I am not sure of this and don't know how effective this is, but I understand the theory behind it.  Perhaps he will chime in with his thoughts and experiences.

 

[Willys 747]

It is all bout traction, or PSI on the ground.....after playing in the mud for years you learn this usually pretty fast, tires are expensive!  IF there is a bottom you need to find it to get traction, if there isn't you need floatation, which reduced PSI to the ground....It's a vicious circle to have to play on.   So you take the best shot you have and work with it.

So for us, normally there is a bottom, tarmac or gravel, so realistically you want to get to it. Narrower tires would solve this fast, but, how much digging can you allow before belly paning??? What is it 5 inches maybe?  So how many times do you drive through snow deeper than this?  Not many if you look at the trend of our winters. So I'm leaning towards the stock sizes or even thiner on the rear to get this advantage.   Now if i wanted to play on the lake I'd be doing the exact opposite for sure....it's regularly deeper than 5 inches guaranteed, so floatation is what I'd look for.

So the choice is yours to make....worst case, I'll use what I have and see.....maybe...lol.    I'd like to see the most aggresive treat I can buy to compare......I love lugs...lol.

 Now a days they seem to think we must have street tires with snipes in them basically and that's it, strictly for ice.....those tires disappear after a season sometimes maybe 2...and they don't do squat in deeper snow as there isn't any deep grooves to gain traction....may as well run the same tires all year round.....something they are almost pushing IMHO.

 

[Willys 747]

4 hours ago, Chopper said:

Shoot the haters down first opportunity. I get silly remarks when I cycle to work.  "Where's your helmet?" asked one idiot? "On the end of my c***", was my reply.  The pith taking suddenly stopped from that point on.

I like your attitude.....I'm usually the knuckle dragger at first glance if they spout off....lol.

You cyclists are all the same....think you own the road, riding in your Tour De France packs.......pluging up the roads, not moving over for us paying drivers....lol....get them helmets on to protect your skulls when you disobey all the road laws darting inbetween traffic like you do.....and you complain when one of you gets creamed by a 3000lb lump of steel...ooops...sorry.


LMFAO....trigger, set........

[lebikerboy 96]

27 minutes ago, Willys said:

I like your attitude.....I'm usually the knuckle dragger at first glance if they spout off....lol.

You cyclists are all the same....think you own the road, riding in your Tour De France packs.......pluging up the roads, not moving over for us paying drivers....lol....get them helmets on to protect your skulls when you disobey all the road laws darting inbetween traffic like you do.....and you complain when one of you gets creamed by a 3000lb lump of steel...ooops...sorry.


LMFAO....trigger, set........

Perhaps you'd be in better health both physically and psychologically if, you chose to cycle...

Edited July 21, 2018 by lebikerboy

[Leadwing 565]

42 minutes ago, Willys said:

Now a days they seem to think we must have street tires with snipes in them basically and that's it, strictly for ice.....those tires disappear after a season sometimes maybe 2...and they don't do squat in deeper snow as there isn't any deep grooves to gain traction....may as well run the same tires all year round.....something they are almost pushing IMHO.

 

My point exactly (albeit a bit exaggerated) from post #19.

[kdubya 34]

Willy's,

First thing to consider....

Dont purchase a smart 450 for fuel economy alone. 

My car doesnt burn much for fuel, sure, infact I have been burning used hydraulic oil from heavy equipment for fuel for years. So my fuel cost is $0000000

But this is the most expensive vehicle I have ever had to keep on the road.

Between maintenance, costly parts, and overall unreliability, owing a smart is a hobby, not a money saving venture.

My Escalade was cheaper to maintain over the 140,000+ I owned it than this car has been. I put a power steering pump into the caddy during that time. My smart...... thousands. Not intuitive to work on. Parts expensive, slow, gutless, ugly, handles like a shopping car with 3 bad casters, 2 seats, limited storage, doesnt even have enough power to get itself unstuck...need I go on?

If your looking for a vehicle that will have a low cost of ownership, buy a Toyota. I never purchased a smart to save money. If you did, you'll no doubt be disappointed. 

[Willys 747]

30 minutes ago, kdubya said:

Willy's,

First thing to consider....

Dont purchase a smart 450 for fuel economy alone. 

My car doesnt burn much for fuel, sure, infact I have been burning used hydraulic oil from heavy equipment for fuel for years. So my fuel cost is $0000000

But this is the most expensive vehicle I have ever had to keep on the road.

Between maintenance, costly parts, and overall unreliability, owing a smart is a hobby, not a money saving venture.

My Escalade was cheaper to maintain over the 140,000+ I owned it than this car has been. I put a power steering pump into the caddy during that time. My smart...... thousands. Not intuitive to work on. Parts expensive, slow, gutless, ugly, handles like a shopping car with 3 bad casters, 2 seats, limited storage, doesnt even have enough power to get itself unstuck...need I go on?

If your looking for a vehicle that will have a low cost of ownership, buy a Toyota. I never purchased a smart to save money. If you did, you'll no doubt be disappointed. 

No, I bought this toy to replace my last toy, but the fuel savings are an added feature. I own two Toyotas an Echo which has just crested 560,000kms and cost us almost zero in major repairs, maintenance I do not count, wear and tear items I mean. The Rav4 I bought for $800 and so far has cost me a few oil seals, less than $50....but 3 days to do the job, my time is free. So if I keep that attitude of my time being free, the Smart so far hasn't cost me a dine for any issues what so ever yet, where's that wood!  All my toys always get seriously messed about with in some form or another. Usually I go after performance and HP....well thos eare out now aren't they!   So I'm going after simply fun and cheap!  I expect nothing from it and seeing as I have a spare already which runs, parts will be semi cheap...lol.  Again where's that tree trunk????   
 

I do agree with most of your discription of it, slow, very very slow off the mark, incredibly unstable in high winds, impossible to see out the back compared to most cars, and only 2 seats, but that's a good thing! Also we did a weeks worth of groceries the first week I had it, surprisingly!  Sort of forgot which vehicle we came in and filled the cart, then once out in the partking lot the light bulb came on and exploded it was so bright...lol.  But it all fit behind the seats! Go figure, I thought for sure the wife would have been covered in frozen foods loll.

So I look forwards to the upcoming excitement of driving it in the snow, simply because it's so short wheel base!  Remember I have two compentant vehicles to drive with all 4 snows on them also, so really don't have to punish myself.....but isn't that what toys are all about?  Playing with them..?

 

 

My next possible toy will probably be an RV of some discription, so I'm going to enjoy the fuel economy as long as I can, maybe even tow the smart behind it....you never know?

Edited July 21, 2018 by Willys

[MikeT 744]

6 hours ago, Willys said:

Now a days they seem to think we must have street tires with snipes in them.....

 

Nooo I have to get PETA on you, think of the birds!

[MikeT 744]

6 hours ago, Willys said:

You cyclists are all the same....think you own the road, riding in your Tour De France packs......

They're too slow for me, I keep up with the cars.....

[Willys 747]

5 hours ago, lebikerboy said:

Perhaps you'd be in better health both physically and psychologically if, you chose to cycle...

Trigger set and fish caught!

 

 

I will bet I last just as long as you do my friend!   Not that I want to mind you.   My health went down the drain after I was rear-ended in a Honda Civic by a Bronco while sitting at a light and he was doing 80kph! Until that day I was as strong as a bull and acted like it.  Nothing stopped me from doing anything.  So now I'm also menatally challenged too it seems from your comment...what a joke...lol.  I have put in my time on a 10 speed back in the day, we used to do long distance rides all over the place. Ottawa to Sauble Beach one year just for a 2 week adventure. Mostly from Ottawa into The Gateneau Hills....Ottawa has the best bicycle network I've seen yet.  I choose not to ride now, well did choose before my accident, after that I can't look upwards easily, 3 herniated discs and a plate and screws stopped that motion.  Not my mentality or psychological capabilities stopped me....I simply chose to use man made HP instead of human power to get from point A to B.

When cyclists choose to obey the rules/laws of the road that'll be the day I respect them, until that day they are riding at their own risk. I used to be one, so I know. If they obeyed the laws 100% of the time, I bet 99% of all accidents wouldn't take place and no-one would give two hoots about you pedaling freaks. But hey, keep pedaling away and enjoy your time on the roads while you can...safety first safety first.....lol

[Willys 747]

10 minutes ago, MikeT said:

They're too slow for me, I keep up with the cars.....

If you ride alone then you aren't one of the problem then are you, unless you are one who darts across traffic against lights etc etc....but hey you wouldn't do that I'm sure...lol...Yeh right...!

 

[Huronlad 186]

11 hours ago, Leadwing said:

I'm quite satisfied with the Conti winter tires in the original sizes, but then I don't make a habit of wandering into "heavy snow country" in the middle of winter on a regular basis.  I believe that HuronLad uses a narrower size for winter.  I am not sure of this and don't know how effective this is, but I understand the theory behind it.  Perhaps he will chime in with his thoughts and experiences.

 

 

Running 145 Toyo Observe GSi5 ice radials all around.  Good spacing between tread blocks to get through heavy snow, my 451 has pushed through close to 12" of fresh snow to get out of my parking lot.  I drove out, another person in the building has to dig their way out for their fwd Hyundai.  They lack the feedback of an X-Ice tire but compare closely to the Blizzaks.  Better in deep snow than the Blizzaks.

 

As for snow tires of yester-years and current technology,  Of all the vehicles with "winter" tires that ended up in a ditch that I have ridden in, they ran old style hard rubber, deep tread winter tires.  I will stick with current tech, ice radials and stay on the road, thanks all the same.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Huronlad

[lebikerboy 96]

3 hours ago, Willys said:

Trigger set and fish caught!

 

 

I will bet I last just as long as you do my friend!   Not that I want to mind you.   My health went down the drain after I was rear-ended in a Honda Civic by a Bronco while sitting at a light and he was doing 80kph! Until that day I was as strong as a bull and acted like it.  Nothing stopped me from doing anything.  So now I'm also menatally challenged too it seems from your comment...what a joke...lol.  I have put in my time on a 10 speed back in the day, we used to do long distance rides all over the place. Ottawa to Sauble Beach one year just for a 2 week adventure. Mostly from Ottawa into The Gateneau Hills....Ottawa has the best bicycle network I've seen yet.  I choose not to ride now, well did choose before my accident, after that I can't look upwards easily, 3 herniated discs and a plate and screws stopped that motion.  Not my mentality or psychological capabilities stopped me....I simply chose to use man made HP instead of human power to get from point A to B.

When cyclists choose to obey the rules/laws of the road that'll be the day I respect them, until that day they are riding at their own risk. I used to be one, so I know. If they obeyed the laws 100% of the time, I bet 99% of all accidents wouldn't take place and no-one would give two hoots about you pedaling freaks. But hey, keep pedaling away and enjoy your time on the roads while you can...safety first safety first.....lol

I just turned Seventy years old and just rode over a hundred kilometres this week which is average for me during the summer. Blood pressure 120/80 and resting heart rate 62 BPM...

As far as your comments about your mental health, you said it, I didn't...

[Leadwing 565]

14 hours ago, Willys said:

When cyclists choose to obey the rules/laws of the road that'll be the day I respect them, until that day they are riding at their own risk.

 

Nice quote from The Duke   ...  "That'll be the day", and I agree.  Cyclists around here are rude and NONE of them obey the rules of the road OR common courtesy.

 

In rural areas with hilly, narrow 2 lane roads, they ride two by two or sometimes three abreast.  Because of the terrain, it is impossible to pass them without running them into a ditch.  A gentle, single toot of the horn to let them know I am there is responded by a 'Trudeau salute' and they continue on their way.  This is not just a one-time happening, but rather it is the normal thing when encountering groups of cyclists in 80kph zones around here.  A recipe for road rage if ever I saw one!

 

 

[Willys 747]

23 minutes ago, Leadwing said:

 

Nice quote from The Duke   ...  "That'll be the day", and I agree.  Cyclists around here are rude and NONE of them obey the rules of the road OR common courtesy.

 

In rural areas with hilly, narrow 2 lane roads, they ride two by two or sometimes three abreast.  Because of the terrain, it is impossible to pass them without running them into a ditch.  A gentle, single toot of the horn to let them know I am there is responded by a 'Trudeau salute' and they continue on their way.  This is not just a one-time happening, but rather it is the normal thing when encountering groups of cyclists in 80kph zones around here.  A recipe for road rage if ever I saw one!

 

 

I wonder, why don't they ride in packs or three abreast in Toronto or any other major city...?  I bet it's the fact they'll get run down in a hartbeat and they know it!   So why do they do it in rural areas? Especially when you can hear a car coming simply from the tire noise gaining behind you. You are on a silent machine without any distractions so you can hear it....unless you are riding with head phones or ear buds in, cranking your favorite tunes.....I wonder..?  Then you should realize you are at risk of being rear-ended due to the position you choose to take on the roadway..no?    Think about it logically, who's going to win this arguement? You in your spandex or me in my smart car...even..?  I expect I won't be requiring an ambulance to finsih my jouney home, but you may?  Accidents happen daily, why ask for it?   I have always honked when I see a pack infront of me, I have had fruit , water bottles and spit thrown at me by riders, and I will even say I had one guy hang his manhood out and piss all down the side of my vehicle!   And you want respect?  I could have moved in closer at who's danger...not mine...I may have been arrested or charged with failing to give enough room, but you won't ever pedal again....again who wins?  I get a slap on the wrist you get a lifetime of pain and suffering?  As me how I know this, I'm a living example of the latter!  I was the lesser in sized vehicles in a similar incident, Honda VS Bronco...I lost!  Just think of the damages if on a bicycle..?  And you STILL fight to keep your space even though it is further than you require? OR legally allowed!   WTF...? Now who is being unreasonable?   Simply set it that you pay your fair share, plates, insurance, stickers, road taxes etc, and get your what 3 feet of space given to you, then you will get far more respect than you get now,....imho. Also stay within your space...it's simple, we all get so much allocated area to drive on, and need to do so safely...no-one is special here, even cyclists!    Why is this so hard to except?

[MikeT 744]

Ahhh winter driving, it reminds me so much of cycling......

[Willys 747]

4 minutes ago, MikeT said:

Ahhh winter driving, it reminds me so much of cycling......

I was just wondering the same thing...lol.

I had to go back to the top to see what thread it actually was...lol

Back to the regularly scheduled program.....lol


Studded tires.....sorry no studded cycle tires allowed!

 

Maybe chains even...Hmmm....?

 

[Chopper 264]

Here in the UK car taxed is emissions based (although the link is getting a bit fuzzy), so the more environmental harm you do the more the government invade your wallet. Zero emissions cars, bicycles etc, therefore pay no car tax, so the "get out of my way because I pay more tax than you" argument is silly.  Interestingly, I'm so old now my car insurance costs barely any more than my cycling insurance, which is odd as cars kill a dozen a day over here but cyclists only kill one every 2 years on average.  

 

I'm a keen cyclist, including in the snow, and I'm an IPMBA and MIAS instructor to the emergency services. Im also a (lapsed) police advanced driver.  Let me tell you, people are born as idiots - what they choose to use for transport purposes is unrelated to that fact, and you'll find idiots in all sorts of vehicles. It's a genetic condition, not something that comes free with the vehicle.  People that behave like chumps on their bicycle will continue to do so when they climb into their cars.

 

Let's all be kind to our fellow man, even in the snow.