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Political Discussions Forum temporarily archived

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The Political Discussions Forum has been temporarily archived; it has NOT been deleted, but rather, moved out of the Community Chatter section and is awaiting additional feedback from site admins/moderators/BoD on it's future. 

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The questions we're wrestling with, two actually:

 

1) Does the forum provide any discernable value to CsC?

2) Does the forum provide any discernable value to the members, apart from sheer entertainment value?

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For the record, approximately 2/3 of the topics are in regards to the current President of the United States, some for, most against, and there are very few overall contributors to the forum in general.

 

Of the remaining topics, about half are in regards to the current Prime Minister of Canada, or their government policy. The remainder tend to focus on provincial politics.

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Please, don't send me PM's about the various discussions that were going on and who is right/wrong/left etc....

 

I mostly know how any interested member feels on the various subjects from reading your posts in said forum. :)   (And likewise, you know of my thoughts.)

 

Discuss here, and as a membership, we hopefully will come to a consensus regarding the political discussion forum.

 

 

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One word CENSORSHIP.....   and that's all I'll say on this topic.....along with, if you don't have a political or off topic section, then all other threads become fair game  for issues that will close down innocent threads because these topics will infiltrate them and ruin them.  Just saying is all.  What a shame....some people can't agree to disagree...wait for it....in ....one....two.....

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I could live without it.  Politics at the dinner table is awfully gauche.

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It's actually NOT censorship if we as a community agree to exclude all political discussions.... at least not in the sense of one 'side' feeling censored.

 

This is not about censorship, or who is right/wrong/left. etc.... it's about whether we want to maintain having a political discussion forum at all

 

If we are to maintain one, there ought to be something in the way of value that it provides to the club, or it's members.... at least, that's my measuring rod

 

If I take the two replies here so far, and add in two private message replies, we're split at 2 each.... ;)

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

I could live without it.  Politics at the dinner table is awfully gauche.

You don't need to open that part of the site, it took me a while to find it...lol.

Plus it isn't directly at the dinner table, it's in the other room, you have to go there first, don't you?  I agree if at the dinner table then no good, but it isn't.

 

Edited by Willys
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The problem is if you remove it, politics will grow into any other area because it hasn't it's own area to belong to. That will result in you closing down perfectly good threads just because someone says something political within it. Also if you are worried about monitoring just the political area, if you remove it you'll have to monitor every post all the time watching for the odd off colour remark made by anyone and then repremanding them for saying it. Even if it was triggered.  Anyone can get triggered easily, me included....so why not have a seperate area where anyone can air their beliefs either way on anything , acceptably so to speak.   It's no different than an off colour  comedy section, many sites hate those, but if done right no harm done. No I'm not asking for one if we have it already or not I do not know. Just saying, everything has it's place and can belong inbetween the oriiginal site topic.....ours being anything Smart Car related.....

This whole issue stemed I think from something about FORD scraping the EV substities....and it grew from there. That was a EV topic and politics soon grew in that thread.....not me, this time, but I did add my 3 cents worth once it was started.....That should have been moved into the political arena as soon as it was a FORD issue, not EV any longer.  Again just saying.

The topics will always get heated, just take cycling....that'll roast some people's chestnuts in a hurry.....and it's not political....but just as nasty!  So why this topic over that one?

There are arguements for both sides as usual, but you can't simply junk it just because a few don't like it......don't go there, easiest solution.

I've been a moderator and admin on a few sites, they all had issues but all had off colour/political areas for members who wanted to air their issues or thoughts. It was the best result, or way to control the influx of poor posts in regular threads.  Thus closing a good thread down because of a few bad posts.  

If a few manage to close it down even if they are in the majority it's still censorship.....you have silenced the few who post there or use it....correctly.

Just impliment simple rules, no personal attacks, no threats, etc etc etc...and all is well.   IF someone has an issue it gets reported to the mod and the mod steps in and gives the offending party a vacation for a few days, IF the rules were broken and not someone got their feeling hurt. Remember it is what it is, a political area etc etc.

I can't see the problem.....if you do not like it, don't open it. If you want to use it open it...simple isn't it?  But to drop it because a few don't like it, because that is censorship. Sorry but it is.

Been here done that.

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This used to be a pretty decent place to share information about our cars, but since the advent of political forum it has become more of a silly off-topic place.  It actually reminds me of the ancient MBCanada forum, where they encouraged trolls to flame smarts time and time again, just because it increased site traffic and therefore improved their Google ranking in searches.  That was a pretty pathetic era, actually.

 

There are places for that sort of stuff in Internet land - e.g. CBC and other news website comment sections for the spambots, shills and others to rant and trade insults, and far more intelligent fora where people can actually debate policy.  It always seemed to me to be a strange thing to have for a car enthusiast forum. If it's eliminated, make sure that the rules are updated like SCoA to exclude political comments on pain of progressive warnings culminating in banning.

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 This forum has been pretty civil during the time I have been here and the mods have pretty much left us alone.  I am on another forum where we have lost some valuable contributors because of a few off colour or offensive remarks (one and the same) and those mods have a zero tolerance for such things.  I understand Willys thoughts on having a place for political discussions  and maybe he is right but I’m not sure clubsmartcar needs to host it and moderate it but there are other topics that are not smart related on this forum so why not.  

 One thing I would ask of the moderators is when someone does make the mistake and becomes offensive give them a time out but also give them a chance to take down the offensive remark and at least apologize.  Don’t ban them and leave the offensive content up.  

Kind of long winded but I choose not to follow the political forum.

 

Nigel

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Deleting the political forum should be initiated as there is really no sense or purpose to having one.

However, if any political "discussions" are detected in any other forums, the perpetrator should receive

two warnings and then be gone after the third strike.

Edited by lebikerboy
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Offensive content? That is entirely subjective. It's a political discussion forum, and we either want to have that forum, or we don't, anything else short of closing the occasional topic if it looks like it's getting too heated, would result in us becoming censors, and I don't think that's what I was hoping we would come to... There are a myriad of positions that one can take in relation to all the hot topics of the day, there's not any potential that I can see to single out anyting for removal, and as an admin'/ moderator, that's not what I would be willing to do... 

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The point that Rick is making I think is that there should be a zero tolerance rule for political trolling in the non-off topic smart forum.  We have experienced this type of troll and flame baiting in normal smart threads already recently and fortunately no-one has taken the bait.

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All I'll say is we don't allow political topics (and a few others) on SCoA because the "discussions" inevitably go downhill fast, creating a lot of ill will.  Not good for the "tone" of the site and offensive to most of the users.  So we don't do it.  Plenty of places on the Internet to air whatever opinions people have on a whole slew of topics.  :)

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This site is supposed to be about smart cars and, in the entertainment section, possibly other car-related news of interest.

 

In my opinion, a political discussion of any sort has no benefit to the club and it's basic principles.  As Jwight mentioned, there are "Plenty of places on the Internet to air whatever opinions people have on a whole slew of topics."

 

Even though I have occasionally even posted MY feelings on certain comments made in those threads. I would like to see the whole "Political Discussions" threads disappear.  They add nothing to the quality and theme of the site and make for hard feelings in some who might be a tad sensitive about politics.  Reason #1 why I don't usually discuss politics or religion.  There can be no winners.

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Hmmm .......isn't this interesteing to say the least, but who was it to started this in the first place starting a thread bashing the FORD administration over his plans to scrap the EV rebates?   That is where all this ill wind started......I can't seem to find it now....not sure where it was who who it actually was who started that thread...but from what I remember it didn't end well when a few members didn't like the fact another member had differing opinions to their own?   Now after a few other threads where their opinions weren't agreed with, they want the whole area shut down....funny how that works isn't it?  There is a word for that!  I have used it before!  I see zero reason why keeping this area alive would infect the "useful" car related topics from helping and guiding fellow members with any issues about Smart Cars.  Ever....
If you haven't got the self will power not to engage or stay out of these types of threads , areas.....what does that say about your mental state? That is IF you can't keep your temper...?   It's not a fluid thing, it's a section that can't move and infect anything else if the regular rules and regs are followed in the other thread areas as they are always, imho. As stated simply give the offending member a time out, 3 strikes and you're gone ruling.    How is this different that someone going off in the other sections as it is?
I didn't think a so called upper crust. more affluent group would be so snotty about not getting their way....but maybe I was mistaken?  99% of the people I see and hear from on this site do not mention politics on this site  at all, so who does that leave who are so against it?   It also doesn't have to be a political topic either, any topic which invokes contraversy should be removed unless it steps over that line set out by the admins.  In any area.  A section for just such topics isn't something to be frowned upon imho as it serves a purpose, it keeps the rest of the site safe, clean and smooth running.  As I have said, it's censorship plain and simple by a few who can't take someone else's opinions on specific topics.  I thought this site was above that mentality and you call me a knuckle dragging redneck....wow!  I never thought I would be the one who would be fighting to keep a section open against this mentality...damn!

 

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There are times when political or regulatory issues will come up that do have a direct impact on our community, whether they be safety related, regulations covering services like car2go, or issues around EV rebates. Up until recently, subjects like these could be discussed here in a civil manner, but I've seen the tone of the forum change in recent months, and have seen numerous threads being locked as discussion got increasingly heated, which has rarely happened in the 13 years I've been here.

 

Some forums can manage well with a Politics and Current Events area, and others do not. It all depends on the membership. I agree with the Directors and Moderators hitting the “pause” button while they decide if an area dedicated to political discussions adds value to the forum or for its membership. 

 

I think the community is well served without it. There are loads of other places people can talk politics if they choose. People can rant all they want on their own Facebook or Twitter accounts, and others have the option to follow or not. Turning a community of interest like this into a political forum is a good way to destroy the sense of community.

 

I've met great people here, and the uniting factor has been the love of these cars. And a good rule with friendships is to not discuss politics or religion.

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2 hours ago, Willys said:

Now after a few other threads where their opinions weren't agreed with, they want the whole area shut down....funny how that works isn't it?  
 

 

Actually, no one came to me asking for consideration of the forum being discontinued. I alone acted to have this discussion take place. (The forum still exists in it's entirety, and is simply out of view.)

 

There are a myriad of opinions on keeping or dropping the forum, but it is heavily leaning towards dropping.

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3 hours ago, Willys said:

...who was it (who) started this in the first place starting a thread bashing the FORD administration over his plans to scrap the EV rebates?   
 

 

The topic on Ford and the EV's didn't begin in the political discussion forum, and was split up and moved there, by me, with no one prompting me to do it. The topic garnered about 40 replies before it looked as though it had run it's course. Only then was it locked.

 

There's no blame or guilt or even right or wrong to be assigned per se on this one topic. There isn't an official CsC policy stating one must agree or disagree with EV incentives, or any other such thing.

 

I think here is where we can make the distinction between having a rational political discussion, and can see the difference between that (which much of it was, IMO), and when it descends into member vs member/trolling etc.

 

When things descend into member vs member, it needs to be reviewed. I'm not apologizing for being the one to prompt us all having a chance to review this. Please, can we not make this so personal?!

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Posted (edited) · Report post

14 hours ago, Nigel said:

One thing I would ask of the moderators is when someone does make the mistake and becomes offensive give them a time out but also give them a chance to take down the offensive remark and at least apologize.  Don’t ban them and leave the offensive content up.  

 

Most other forums I'm on, moderators will delete offensive or inflammatory posts, AND give the member a 1-week suspension for violating forum rules. Then a 1-month suspension for repeat offences. Then a permanent ban.

Edited by darren

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The discussion on the EV incentives being killed didn't get locked. It took an odd turn into discussing jerry cans, and last I checked, was still open for posting.

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Correct. Mostly anyway. The topic which remains is here:

 

 

But this topic below was SPLIT from the discussion, and resided in political discussions, and had 40 posts. Including those about the jerry cans. :) It was locked, and now of course, is not visible.

 

Ford Nation to kill EV incentives? From: Trying to buy new non-smart EV

 

 
 
 

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Interestingly, one of the posts in that split-off topic says:

 

Quote

 I'm not interested in fighting politics as it doesn't do anyone any good, just busts up a car club..

 

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Yup, just about sums it up.

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