o2bad455

New to us 2006 CDI Cabrio Pure non-starter

33 posts in this topic

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Girlfriend decided it was cute and that I needed a new challenge.  New to both Smart and diesel.  Bought it today with 169K kms.  Previous owner reported new turbo and exhaust last year, but that trans wouldn't shift past 2nd (three horizontal bars in display) and parked it.  Gauge shows 2/5 tank of diesel. 

 

Cranks but can't get it to start, even after trying a used spare trans module.  Only OBD codes are for glow plug circuit and intake air temp, but I assume those wouldn't keep it from starting this time of year.  We even tried pull-starting it according to https://www.evilution.co.uk/169 (although I managed to get it into 2nd rather than 1st) which chirped rear tires when electronic clutch engaged but I still didn't hear or feel a single cylinder firing. 

 

I'm thinking it must be fuel pump related and/or a sensor that affects fuel pressure.  I do hear the low pressure pump running upon initial key turn.  What sort of pressure should be at the rail?  What's the best scan software for these?  Could also use a few used parts including LR fender, driver's seat, alloy wheels, a few trim bits (e.g., plastic cover at antenna base).  Any/all thoughts appreciated!

Edited by o2bad455

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Check the SAM for burnt pins.

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Low pressure pump should make about 2.5 bar pressure. 

Rail pressure when starting is above 230 bar so do not try measuring with a pressure gauge in high pressure system. Max pressure is about 1300 bar. 

Check for seized alternator. 

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Best cheap diagnostics unit is Delphi DS150E.  Does buses and lorries also. 

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If sat for a long time, some penetration oil into inlet manifold may help restore compression. Easiest to spray in through hose that connects to inlet air pressure sensor which is bolted onto a soft mount just forward of oil filler cap. Another position is at inlet to inlet manifold so heat and remove hose first. 

Introduce oil when cranking. 

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8 hours ago, Huronlad said:

Welcome to CsC.

Thank You!

 

7 hours ago, MikeT said:

Check the SAM for burnt pins.

Thanks.  Why's it called "SAM"?  I had pulled and checked every fuse on the underside.  All but one (due to damaged side marker) were good.  But do you mean the connector pins on the top side?

 

7 hours ago, tolsen said:

Low pressure pump should make about 2.5 bar pressure. 

Rail pressure when starting is above 230 bar so do not try measuring with a pressure gauge in high pressure system. Max pressure is about 1300 bar. 

Check for seized alternator. 

Wow!  That's a lot more pressure than I'd realized.  Ok, I guess I won't be physically trying to check that.  Thanks very much for the timely info.  I'll definitely check alternator rotation next time out.  Thanks!

 

6 hours ago, tolsen said:

Best cheap diagnostics unit is Delphi DS150E.  Does buses and lorries also. 

Would that retrieve more detailed Smart-specific codes than my generic OBDII cables?  I'm used to VCDS and Nefmoto in the well-supported VW/Audi world, but I've read something about a MB scanner called Xentry that may be Smart-compatible and, if so, seems interesting.

 

6 hours ago, tolsen said:

If sat for a long time, some penetration oil into inlet manifold may help restore compression. Easiest to spray in through hose that connects to inlet air pressure sensor which is bolted onto a soft mount just forward of oil filler cap. Another position is at inlet to inlet manifold so heat and remove hose first. 

Introduce oil when cranking. 

I'll look for one or both of those next time out, thanks.  I did pop the air cleaner cover and found that I could push the filter element forward enough to suirt WD-40 into what I assumed was the intake tube (hmm... unless it was a warmed air source) at the back.  Didn't seem to make any difference when sprayed either before or during cranking, though.

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 I've read something about a MB scanner called Xentry that may be Smart-compatible and, if so, seems interesting.

 

IF you are serious about dealing with your own vehicle without the dealership charging you an arm and a leg etc, let alone just doing your own tech, then yes this is the way to go.  IMHO.
Not cheap if you do, mind you. I am all but done making a system operational.   I did go the expensive route perhaps  but i have alterior motives, I can't see having a machine that only works as a single tool. I want to be able to use it for multiple uses not just this system.

To each their own.....lol

IMHO, if you have the space to store a second Smart and use it as a parts car this is the best way to buy parts, as some wreckers think they are made of gold. Search for another cheap as chips car and have at it...lol   Even if simply to strip and store parts hidden under your bed...lol.

 

Welcome to the site, fanatstic folks here and extremely willing to help.

 

 

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1 hour ago, o2bad455 said:

Why's it called "SAM"?  I had pulled and checked every fuse on the underside.  All but one (due to damaged side marker) were good.  But do you mean the connector pins on the top side?

 

Here is a little information from Evilution.  It should explain a few things. 

So What Is The SAM Unit?
Essentially it is a fuse box with internal relays and a microprocessor that controls
almost all of the electrical functions of the car. The processor is flashable so it can
be taught new tricks by way of a TAN code, these tricks include paddle gear shift,
auto door locking, automatic gear change, day time running lights, cruise control etc.
What Does SAM Stand For?
Signal Acquisition & Actuation Module.
Where Is It?
It can be found at the top of the footwell, passenger side of a RHD smart city coupe/cabrio,
drivers side of a LHD smart city coupe/cabrio and the drivers side of a Roadster.
What Does It Look Like?
Just a plain boring black box with fuses pushed into the front.
Although the SAM units all look the same, the new 452 internals are slightly different.

For pictures , click on this SAM link

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Confirm alternator spins and connect jump lead from battery negative pole to transmission. Then try to start. 

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She's alive!!!  That was the main starting problem, thanks!  The alternator was definitely seized.  Now looking for a Mk1 (450) left rear fender, ideally in metallic grey, to help make this little machine look presentable. 

 

Our top flat-road speed on the maiden voyage was 100 kph (reached in 5th, couldn't maintain in 6th), which we can't quite consider "safety fast" where traffic moves at 120-130 kph.  Is 100 kph about right for a stock 40.5 hp cdi engine?  What's the stock boost pressure on these?  Anyone know of a boost gauge that compliments the interior?  Also looking for a .kp or .xdf definitions file so I can start fine-tuning our ecu. 

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MAP pressures just over 33 PSI will cause a boost fault.  With a factory ECU map, the cdi in proper running order should clip along at 135 kph.

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9 hours ago, o2bad455 said:

  Is 100 kph about right for a stock 40.5 hp cdi engine? 

 

Before mine were remapped, both of them could maintain a steady 125 - 130kph on a flat road with no wind.  With the remap, both cars can maintain 140kph ..... even on uphills  I highly recommend getting one if you are going to keep the car.

 

BTW, the 450 is limited (electronically) to 140kph.  Some have managed to by-pass this and exceed 140, but 140 is fast enough for me.

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Thanks folks!  It sounds like we have some performance-hindering issues to resolve before I move on to tuning.  The check engine light was on after the highway run, and the OBDII codes were:

P0113 - Intake Air Temp. Sensor (G42): Signal too High
P0380 - Glow Plug/Heater (Q6) Circuit: Malfunction
P0238 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31): Signal too High

 

A full DTC reset and then cycling the key without even starting reproduced the first two (P0113 and P0380).  Starting and idling didn't add any.  I'll see what I can do about the intake air sensor once I locate it.  Is it in the airbox, tubing, or manifold?  I believe I've got 2 of 3 bad glow plugs, but assume that wouldn't make any difference once it's running.  No idea how we triggered the P0238 with presumably stock tune during the highway run, unless maybe that sensor's bad too.

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I think most of us use the Scangauge II for monitoring and learning how to get the maximum fuel economy.  Somewhere on this site there is a post on how to set it up.  Boost will top out around 16 psi or if you are using MAP about 2.1 bar much more than that will set an overboost code.  It sounds like you are way low on power and that may improve with fresh fuel and maybe add some fuel conditioner for the next couple of tanks.   Wastegate may be stuck from sitting, peel the bumper cover off grab the wastegate arm with vice grips or channel locks and rotate it back and forth a few times to make sure it is free.

 

Nigel

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54 minutes ago, o2bad455 said:

  I'll see what I can do about the intake air sensor once I locate it. 

 

Intake air sensor is located on the bottom of the intercooler.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

IAT:

Thanks smart142!  It's raining here today but I'd like to order a new intake air temperature (IAT) sensor now without going out to lie in the mud.  eBay listings show two different styles, one with two tabs and a cage, and another without the tabs or cage.  Anyone know which is right for a 2006 cdi?

 

Boost:

Thanks Nigel, I'll look into the Scangauge II, and I'll definitely check the wastegate arm as you suggested (after the rain lets up).


Flash:

Thanks tolsen.  I don't have a full version of WinOLS (prefer free tools), but at least that damos should help me see what's already there using the trial version.  I'm having trouble reading the current ECU flash.  I tried scanning the ECU's 95P08 (correct?) flash memory with several different cables, software tools, com ports, baud rates, and even dropped the latency timer from 16 to 2 msec.  I tried with key on, key off, and even while running but no luck at all.  Is there a particular trick to this one?  What's worked in the past?

 

Bulbs:

Last night, we went through replacing all the Cabrio's burnt out bulbs in the front and rear lights (still have to do one of 5 in the center third brake assembly, and the front side markers which I'd like to convert to side/turn), and found a couple of oddities.  1) Although Canadian tire lists single-filament, the front signal lights in the grille actually take double filament bulbs (due to double base and offset twist tabs), which usually means parking lights, but the second filaments never light up.  What are they supposed to be for?  This is Canada so the headlights are always on anyway, but we're curious.  2) The rear tail light bulb socket plate on the left (part number ending with L) and the one on the right (part number ending with R) seem to be on the correct sides although they may interchange.  The R plate has circuitry to light up the top two bulbs as tail lights, but the L plate only has circuitry to light up the top bulb as a tail light.  If it were the opposite, I'd assume the extra was for a rear fog marker, but the extra bulb on the right makes no sense to me (unless. perhaps, the rear fog provision was for UK only).  The top bulb is double-filament and also operates as one of the two brake lights, while the lower right one is single filament so it's definitely only a tail light.  Thoughts? 

Edited by o2bad455

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7 hours ago, o2bad455 said:

Although Canadian tire lists single-filament, the front signal lights in the grille actually take double filament bulbs (due to double base and offset twist tabs), which usually means parking lights, but the second filaments never light up. 

 

Using the double filament bulb was the easiest way for them to make sure that the light was bright enough to pass as a turn signal.   When you take the base of the light out, you will find that there are only two wires coming out of the back, but look INTO the socket, and there are two contacts for a standard 1157 bulb ( parking lights and turn signals ) ........ I simply drilled out the back of the socket in the proper location, soldered in a third wire and sealed the back of the socket and now have working parking lights in the grille AND turn signals.  I used LEDs and connected the turn signals to the original position as well, so I now have 2 front left and 2 front right turn signals

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Something bizarre happened today.  I topped off the diesel fuel for only the second time since purchase.  It took 3.07 gallons (= 11.6 liters) for, get this, 4610 kilometers (= 2865 miles) according to the odometer (no chance of mis-remembering as I took pictures at both fill-ups).  I believe I actually drove only about 200 km.  I just took it out for a 38 km trip (per Google maps) and it registered the 38 km accurately.  Interestingly, the previous owner really seemed to think it only had 80-something K km on it and appeared dumbfounded but very apologetic when I noted that the odo was at 169K kms.  I didn't know what to make of that as everything else she told us turned out to be accurate, and simply assumed she'd mixed it up with another car.  I know there had been multiple unsuccessful jump-starting attempts, but none since we've started driving it.  Unfortunately, I've already reported 169K to the SAAQ at registration.  Any idea what could be going on with the odo? 

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Do you have a ScanGauge connected?  If so, get a (free) non-CAN cable from Linear Logic.  CAN cables can and do mess up smart cdi odometer readings.

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Thanks Mike.  We hadn't installed a ScanGauge yet, but had scanned DTCs (and attempted unsuccessfully so far to read the flash) with a variety of cables, including a CAN-capable one set to dumb mode IIRC.  No idea what folks had used in the 6-12 months that it languished just before we got it, but the p.o. did say it had been scanned.  Not sure now what I should use to read the flash, but we'll avoid using the CAN-capable cable in the future for simply reading DTCs.

 

We found a used rear 450 Cabrio fender (unfortunately it's red instead of metallic grey) with complete Canadian side-marker light housing at a salvage yard last weekend, and hope to pick up some clean 451 alloys this weekend.  I've decided not to deal with installing the new glow plugs just yet, so we're taking it off the road for the winter.  Once we make room in the garage, the plan is hunt down the power issue (currently suspect a boost leak) and make it nice before spring.

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The 451 alloys do NOT have the correct offset for your diesel.

They will rub against the rear shocks!

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Thanks.  I've heard different stories on that, and think it must depend on which of various OEM 451 wheels and tires were tried on 450s.  When they do fit, people rarely complain.  So we just hear about the ones that didn't fit and unfortunately no one's actually posted specs that did or didn't fit.  The 451 wheels we're hopefully getting are just the standard 15" 9-spoke Passion alloys, which will be an upgrade for us since our 450 Pure has two sets of stock steelies.  I've read the fronts are 1/2" wider (at 4.5"x15 vs. 4"x15) with 3.5mm less center offset (ET23.5 vs ET27) but definitely fit 450 too.  I believe these particular 451 rears are 5.5x15 ET22 versus the stock steel 450 rears at 5.5x15 ET-1.  With same sized tires, that puts the inner edges about 23mm further in, which should be correctable with spacers.  I'm prepared to order 20mm to 1-inch hub-centric spacers if we have to (especially since readily available longer VW FWD 4-lug grade 12.9 racing studs should fit), but I've heard from at least one guy who's tried many 451 wheels on 450s and says most similar-sized 451 wheel/tire combos (e.g., same diam and width wheels AND tires) do clear the 450 rear despite the different offsets.  I guess we'll find out soon enough, and I'll certainly post up.

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