Sydney

still puzzled

22 posts in this topic

I'm still stumped on why my smart won't turn over fast.

I have taken off the atl & compressor belts, checked the ground from the battery to chassis & chassis to engine, I have a new fully charged battery with a charger (on boost) hooked up.

Is there a possibility of the cylinders being so full of diesel that the engine is having a hard time turning over?

I'm trying all options before I buy a new starter.

I did find a rebuilt starter for $160.00, but once I buy it, I can't return it.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

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Take the starter off and take it apart and look at the internals.....just saying, you may see something out of whack or worn badly, worn brushes, or damaged, reluctor or whatever it's called that the brushed ride on, damn....I can't think of the correct name if that's not it...lol.  Gota love getting old..lol.  Maybe a bearing is siezing? Or simply bad wiring? Internally speaking? A bad ground at the connections to the starter? Or power.?

Check that before buying new?  Can't see why it can't be rebuilt, can't it?

 

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My money is on the starter.  If the pots were full of fuel it wouldn't turn at all and you'd likely have bent a rod by now.

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Sydney you stated in your other thread that the earth lead is getting hot.  Not clear which one but I assume the rear earth lead from chassis to transmission as battery earth is much shorter and lasts forever.

 

There are many ways of checking earth leads, some measure voltage drop over them but I simply connect a jump lead and then crank engine over on starter to see if there is any improvement.

 

The rear earth lead from chassis to transmission is very much prone to corrosion and they often just disintegrate into fine powder. This is the lead that wraps around TIK pipe.

Posted Image

Original earth lead and my DIY earth lead.

Original Smart earth lead measures 410 mm between centres of lug holes. The Smart earth lead is held on with M6 bolts hence requires 6 mm lug holes. Most earth leads available aftermarket come with 8 mm lugs. I cut the earth lead to right length and soldered on two previously acquired 6 mm2 lugs with 6 mm fixing holes. Total earth lead cost GBP 1.50 plus 2 lugs (approx 70p each) = GBP 2.90.

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It may very well need a starter but I agree with tolsen it is much easier to check the ground with a set of booster cables first.  

 

Nigel

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6 hours ago, tolsen said:

Sydney you stated in your other thread that the earth lead is getting hot.  Not clear which one but I assume the rear earth lead from chassis to transmission as battery earth is much shorter and lasts forever.

 

There are many ways of checking earth leads, some measure voltage drop over them but I simply connect a jump lead and then crank engine over on starter to see if there is any improvement.

 

The rear earth lead from chassis to transmission is very much prone to corrosion and they often just disintegrate into fine powder. This is the lead that wraps around TIK pipe.

Posted Image

Original earth lead and my DIY earth lead.

Original Smart earth lead measures 410 mm between centres of lug holes. The Smart earth lead is held on with M6 bolts hence requires 6 mm lug holes. Most earth leads available aftermarket come with 8 mm lugs. I cut the earth lead to right length and soldered on two previously acquired 6 mm2 lugs with 6 mm fixing holes. Total earth lead cost GBP 1.50 plus 2 lugs (approx 70p each) = GBP 2.90.

i am going to just replace the earth ground and give it a try,  i will keep you posted.    thanks

 

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good time to grease up those rear skirt bolts too...

 

the ground strap is much easier to change with the rear bumper skin off if i remember right

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I just snapped off most of the bolts for the underpan the front one due to rust and nobody greasing them, fun times ahead.....!
The next will be antisiezed to within an inch of their lives....!...lol...

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On September 11, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Sydney said:

i am going to just replace the earth ground and give it a try,  i will keep you posted.    thanks

 

I replaced the earth ground with a new 4 Guage one, still no difference.

So I guess it's time to dive into removing the starter.   I was thinking about doing the complete EGR delete at the same time.  

Any thoughts?

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Clean EGR valve and fit stainless steel blanking plate on its exhaust supply when refitting. Then EGR trouble no more and cleaner exhaust. Also less carbon contaminating oil. 

 

Regarding starter removal, takes me a good hour or two to do provided no seized bolts in which case the job can run into days. 

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Here are a few photos showing rear subframe lowered using the longer rear bolts in forward holes and two wooden sticks supporting rear end of subframe. 

13736CC5-74D0-474F-978B-041DFD761381.jpeg

Make sure there is at least five turn thread engagement. 

 

F2BA0420-A515-4EB5-8A3F-BC152B1D2BA2.jpeg

Ready to lower subframe. Measure required length of sticks before you start lowering. I knocked a nail into one end of each stick and bent nail 90 degrees to allow sticks to be suspended from subframe when lowering. 

 

E62041E7-DD2B-4313-8A9D-F3099A126B59.jpeg

I think you should remove wheel arch lining on left side to improve access. 

 

9CE214BB-966D-4019-ADE3-670AC6F52EE4.jpeg

View from top. Those that eat enough carrots may spot starter. 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, tolsen said:

Here are a few photos showing rear subframe lowered using the longer rear bolts in forward holes and two wooden sticks supporting rear end of subframe. 

13736CC5-74D0-474F-978B-041DFD761381.jpeg

Make sure there is at least five turn thread engagement. 

 

F2BA0420-A515-4EB5-8A3F-BC152B1D2BA2.jpeg

Ready to lower subframe. Measure required length of sticks before you start lowering. I knocked a nail into one end of each stick and bent nail 90 degrees to allow sticks to be suspended from subframe when lowering. 

 

E62041E7-DD2B-4313-8A9D-F3099A126B59.jpeg

I think you should remove wheel arch lining on left side to improve access. 

 

9CE214BB-966D-4019-ADE3-670AC6F52EE4.jpeg

View from top. Those that eat enough carrots may spot starter. 

 

 

 

 

 

wow,  i see the starter.  do i still have to remove the intercooler to remove the starter?

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6 hours ago, tolsen said:

Clean EGR valve and fit stainless steel blanking plate on its exhaust supply when refitting. Then EGR trouble no more and cleaner exhaust. Also less carbon contaminating oil. 

 

Regarding starter removal, takes me a good hour or two to do provided no seized bolts in which case the job can run into days. 

i was thinking about the complete EGR removal   (that i found in another post)

and i got all the bolts out with no problem at all.   the previous owner had my smart undercoated, so the underside of the car is still rust free.

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1 hour ago, Sydney said:

wow,  i see the starter.  do i still have to remove the intercooler to remove the starter?

Intercooler support cradle is held on with two bolts and on inboard side by a pin which protrudes from transmission. 

 

One bolt is easily accessed from wheel arch. The inboard bolt requires removal of scoop or you can lift left side of cradle to access this bolt. 

 

A1689107-A250-447A-AE34-CA123B67E5C5.jpeg

 

6BD8BF34-02BA-49E5-BAEE-16E9B36F151C.jpeg

 

Above support cradle was vandalised by Mercedes dealer in Aberdeen when fitting a new starter. 

 

I do recommend removing intercooler mainly to sort out its cradle so it won’t cut into intercooler and cause leaks. 

 

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24 minutes ago, tolsen said:

Intercooler support cradle is held on with two bolts and on inboard side by a pin which protrudes from transmission. 

 

One bolt is easily accessed from wheel arch. The inboard bolt requires removal of scoop or you can lift left side of cradle to access this bolt. 

 

A1689107-A250-447A-AE34-CA123B67E5C5.jpeg

 

6BD8BF34-02BA-49E5-BAEE-16E9B36F151C.jpeg

 

Above support cradle was vandalised by Mercedes dealer in Aberdeen when fitting a new starter. 

 

I do recommend removing intercooler mainly to sort out its cradle so it won’t cut into intercooler and cause leaks. 

 

ok, thanks for the continuing help.

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17 hours ago, tolsen said:

Clean EGR valve and fit stainless steel blanking plate on its exhaust supply when refitting. Then EGR trouble no more and cleaner exhaust. Also less carbon contaminating oil. 

 

Regarding starter removal, takes me a good hour or two to do provided no seized bolts in which case the job can run into days. 

Why not just turn the egr around so as to block the exhaust gas flow? It is easier than trying to get those bolts out to put a blanking plate

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4 hours ago, Thio said:

Why not just turn the egr around so as to block the exhaust gas flow? It is easier than trying to get those bolts out to put a blanking plate

What do you mean by turn the egr around? Sorry, I'm a little confused.

 

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12 hours ago, Sydney said:

What do you mean by turn the egr around? Sorry, I'm a little confused.

 

Found this on the site to help explain it

EGR blocked.jpg

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