Willys

rebuilding injectors

19 posts in this topic

OK, I am going to dismantle my injectors to make 100% sure they are clean and acting as they should.  Has anyone else done this and what did you find or learn?  I am an expert now, I have watched a few youtube clips so I know...lol.  I was wondering if anyone had bought new needles for their injectors to get new holes or spray capabilities back. As it was when new. The rest seems simply a matter of cleaning and cleaning well. I have an altra sonic that they fit in without sbmerging the electronics and they have been done at least for 30 minutes and look almost like new. BUT, I wonder what they are like internally. They weren't bad externally to ne honest, but if they are capable of being cleaned, why not?
I have two junk yard injectors which look usable But the holes seem to be slightly distorted. compared to my almost new ones I took out of the engine. The reason I am taking them out was because the engine isn't running evenly and has a slight shake or vibration when fuel is applied. So add two and two and in my head that means injectors aren't delivering fuel as they should. The fuel pressures are all near perfect the Star is telling me, so that leaves mechanical issues.

So, has anyone bought new needles and where did you find them as the dealer simply said why bother and wanted to sell me a whole injector. Sorry don't want to loose another nut to buy one..so will do it myself. Clean and rebuild that is. I did manage to buy all their crush washers, 6 to be presice...lol. Enough for now.

 

Thanks for the help and information.

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OK so all i have found out about our injectors so far is, finding nozzles and needles seperately is like location a pair of chicken lips!
So our nozzles are DSLA 155 P 863+
The "DSLA" means that the nozzle orifice is cut into the needle seating area. The "P" is the needle type that is in the nozzle- a 4mm diameter needle, and the "155" is the spray angle of the orifices. The last number is not the orifice size, it's just the name. Note that the nozzle orifices may be placed asymmetrically around the nozzle tip, some are, some aren't. The stock nozzles have 5 holes around the tip and some newer aftermarket nozzles have 7 holes for a finer spray. This number of holes may or not apply to us as in number of... but the idea behind 5 versus 7  could.  You can't change the DSLA to a DLL or similar won't work.

 

I am running into a wall here for solid information on our specific bits and pieces but can learn from the VW TDi folks as what they have done and have found to be no good. Basically we must stick with those DSLA 155 P numbers.....but haven't found out for sure yet what the last  three numbers are. One guy suggests they are production date type numbers as in older to newer...but I question that.....??

 

Anyone seen anything else about it or know anything?   I do not want to change the flow or angle of spray at all, just want good replacement parts. I was also warned about chinese knock off parts being poorly constructed etc after others being burnt by them.

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This is just a guess, But maybe the last 3 numbers has to do with the piezo wafer count?

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That would make sense....as they are stackable and that dictates how fast or controlable the opening speeds are or how many per cycle...?..?

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1 hour ago, tolsen said:

Ours are electromagnetic no piezo wafer stack.  

OK, so what else do you know that can help find replacement nozzles and needles?
Thanks.

 

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Times must change. The last time I asked, about 4 years ago,I was told by a diesel shop that they couldn't rebuild those injectors.

''special equipment needed''

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3 hours ago, smart142 said:

Times must change. The last time I asked, about 4 years ago,I was told by a diesel shop that they couldn't rebuild those injectors.

''special equipment needed''

Hmmmm....?  They come apart easily...and you can clean the crap out of them and there is crap enough inside them. You can also dismantle the top end and see whats what....you can also check the electrical components. OK....IF you wanted to measure the pop off pressures etc and spray angles etc, then yes you would need a few hundred $$$ worth of stuff.....but a shop should have those already imho if they are serious about rebuilding injectors.  I think they simply didn't want to know about them. They are very hard to get parts for. The numbers on the top need to be uncoded to get the corect information for them I think I'm reading. Bosch wants to keep their product to themselves! Rebuilding them would be simple IF we could get new nozzles and needles. They are matched toegther from what i have read. The rest is testable. Spring rate etc etc.....I expect it's just the needle and nozzles that really wear that make any real difference to us normal daily users. Unlike performance items or long haul trucks.
So I keep searching for new parts, mine seem OK now, but I would like a set or two of new needles and nozzles for later down the road.

 

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Not as easy as you think even if you possess all required special tools. 

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Have you rebuilt any? Do you have any experience working with them, cleaning them etc etc...if so please share...thanks.

 

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I have seen these injectors being opened out by a local diesel specialist and quickly concluded this work is far beyond any diy mechanic. The tools required are just too expensive. 

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8 minutes ago, tolsen said:

I have seen these injectors being opened out by a local diesel specialist and quickly concluded this work is far beyond any diy mechanic. The tools required are just too expensive. 

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself...There is nothing terrifying inside them. They can easily be taken apart and cleaned well. Even that will produce benefits. I have seen what you are capable of doing, so I'm surprised you don't do this. Mine were covered in soot and crud plenty outside but some on the inside. the needle moves far easier now and the spray is noticably better. Very clear to where the spray is directed and it's a sharp stream, unlike a weak mist. Nothing pushed in any holes, just ultrasonic cleaning and sprayed though with carb cleaner and air.  I do not have a pop test machine but they aren't that expensive to buy from what i saw on the internet, but the measuring tools are expensive, and the microscope could be also, or you may be able to use your kids science microscope if the magnifications not too strong, maybe?  It took 3 lenses to just see the holes and the condition of their openings, so a microscope would be far better I'm thinking. I'll keep digging for those nozzles and needles to see if they are available, so far not.  IF you do think of having a go at cleaning them, do not touch the tip with anything like a wire brush....the holes are far too delicate for that I'm sure....or poking wires down them...I couldn't find anything fine enough to come close to thinking about sticking anything down them to clean them out. Besides all you would be doing is changing their shape, width, or direction which would ruin their purpose and design.  Also, do not apply voltage to the solinoid as that will fry it, that i did! 
1 ruined injector due to not knowing how much they demand.....that is why you have scrapyard items to practice on, so you do not destroy the items you need to get to work tomorrow...lol

 

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I see somebody does not have a clue what he is talking about.  

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8 hours ago, tolsen said:

I see somebody does not have a clue what he is talking about.  

LOL...we'll see...lol

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He used two tools I don't have here, at 1:20 and at 2:30  the rest is done with simple normal shop tools any mechanic would own. So the only piece I couldn't remove was that long needle section from the inside of the injector. Everything else is clean and reinstalled, works far better than not touching it.  But you may disagree..?   OR not...?

Like I said before, simply adding a new needle and nozzle would do wonders imho.....IF, we can locate them or decode the top number Bosch uses to fool us.  Every other manufacturer sells these items, why not this company?  Money is why.

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This is the one you should be paying attention to....it is positble to do most of these measurements on a lathe bed I would imagine and using machine guages....sorry can't find correct discription in my head at the moment....yes I'm getting old.
This video explains everything to us....just not where to get replacement parts after you figure out what thickness shims you require, ?

 

 

 

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There are no parts. Period end of story. Bosch only offers complete injectors.

If you manage to find parts they will be copies and not original Bosch. Might work, might fail shortly or not.

Testing them is import and most Bosch diesel rebuiders can-flow is what is important they usually do not deliver enough fuel quantity causing hard starting or misfires.

There are products out there you can run in the fuel to help before spending $2000 on a set of injectors. 

Hot shot diesel extreme works well available on amazon really reduces smoke issues. Liqui Moly diesel purge is a great cleaner and quiets things down. 

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Yes I have given up searching for parts as you have said, only copies IF you can actually find the correct numbers even...!
My injectors are giving good numbers now, so the cleaning I gave them helped I think.  I have found out that wasn't the problem for my miss anyway.  Unfortunately i found small amounts of the dreaded green sludge on pins 116 and 120 of the ECU, so went after cleaning that with plastic brush similar to a tooth brush and saw a flash between a ground and the pin one side of it. It looked like a capacitor discharge imho. Now I have a single bar on the dash which I'm learning is even worse than the 3 bars of death! It is all related to the ECU and something bad inside it. No fuses blown, cheched them 3 times just to be sure.....tried the STAR, it won't even think about talking to the ECU now so I know something is fried inside. I have also checked both plugs again just for shiats and giggles, both are perfectly clean.....Hmmm....I didn't check pins for continuity from one side to the other though...that'll be next. Then I'm taking the ECU out to have a really close look at it. I knew that silicon was a bad idea...lol. Looking for anything burnt.
What do you know about this new problem?  I'm all ears.

 

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