Sydney

still puzzled on glow plugs

39 posts in this topic

Hi group, really need some help here. I'm still stumped on my glow plug issue.  

My code scanner says I have a "glow plug circuit fault". I have swapped the controller with one of my other smarts controller, no change.

When I turn the ignition on, glow plug light comes on for a split second then goes out. When I start the car the glow plug light comes on for about a minute then goes out (they the check engine light comes on to show the fault)

Heat bolster also also does not work.

I think I can figure it out if I knew what the wires were for.

There are 2 harnesses on the controllor.

4 pin harness.

Black

Black/red

Violet

Grey/green

 

9 pins harness

Large Red

3 white (I assume, feed to the 3 glow plugs)

2 smaller white wires

Green

Brown

Blue

 

 

 

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Have you traced it from front to rear, nasty job but...?

Also, are all bulbs etc in speedo cluster correct and working correctly?  What about short  somewhere between heater bolster and such..?  I hate tracing wiring issues....just a nasty job. What about a ground issue?  Have you recleaned all ground contact locations? They are all over the place I am finding.....and all look clean but I file each one whenever i find a new one. Then coat in dielectric grease just to help maybe. Again just spit balling....as I think of stuff to check..?  I expect you have already thought or done all of these before asking for help.

 

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2 hours ago, LooseLugNuts said:

this thread might help a bit

 

 

Thanks for the link.  i also found a few more old threads on glow plugs.   from what i have read so far,  i think i have 2 bad glow plugs.  

if it wasn't for the check engine light being on,  i would just say the hell with it.  (its only a summer car).

i'm terrified too try to get them out and break one in the process.

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59 minutes ago, Sydney said:

i'm terrified too try to get them out and break one in the process

 

i would be too...my coupe was cheap because all the glows where snapped off...the previous owner was *smart* enough to drill them off center ...and to top it off one had a broken easy-out jammed into it

 

i managed to save it though and it is still currently in service with a new owner

 

do lots of penetrating oil before trying...like spray some everyday for a few days

 

and use a torque wrench....i dont remember what torque they snap off at but i know its posted somewhere...use a simple deflection type torque wrench and dont put more pressure than that...work them back and forth when they crack loose...dont try to muscle them out

 

when i changed mine i remember buying them from the local carquest place ..they were fairly cheap but had to order in

 

 

also if you get them out ...make a reamer from a drill bit ...or buy some extra long bits ....find one that is smaller than the glow port but larger than the electrode end ...coat it with grease and use it to remove the built up carbon from the head passage

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I know what you mean about snapping them. I used a small 1/4" breaker bar to work mine back and forth for what seemed like hours before i got them out. Plenty of penetrating juice and a hot engine!  I even left one in as I was scared to snap it. IF I remember right the glow plugs came with a drill bit size in their instructions to use as a reamer. I think I had mine shipped from over seas ....dirt cheap and NGK's. Off Amazon or FleaBay...?  It was far cheaper than my local auto parts guy.

Good luck.

 

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I use a 1/4” air rattle gun to get them out. Max torque should not exceed 30 Nm. Heat them if deemed necessary with an oxy acetylene torch until they glow dull red. 

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whats the best brand name replacement glow plugs to buy ???

 

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Beru is oem. I prefer NGK if available.

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15 minutes ago, smart142 said:

Beru is oem. I prefer NGK if available.

Thanks, I can get NGK, Bosh and Beru thru NAPA here. 

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well here i go,  i have 3 new NGK glow plugs  ($18.00 each from my local parts store). 

i have been spraying the old plugs with penetrating oil for the last week and am going to go for a drive this weekend to heat it up.

i have never been so nervous working on a car before.   lol

Saturday afternoon will either be a nice day to go for a driver in my smart with new glow plugs installed,  or it will be an afternoon filled with lots a bad words while i remove an engine...

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Be careful not to over tighten them when you finally get them out and cleaned up and putting them back in. I think I over tightened one of mine in the beater and that might be what happened to it. I'm just speculating as i haven't even looked at it yet, but it's the only sensible reason or answer for what I saw in the dark that night.  I think I blew one out, it's laying up against the block and the puffing I was getting in my face was out of the glow plug hole. They were a serious pain to get out from what I remember. Took a long time in fear of snapping them. I also think because of that the threads weren't in the best of shape even after cleaning them out as recommended so when i reinstalled the new plugs I may have slightly stripped one out?  Just hope you don't repeat my mistakes.  I'm a firm believer in saying what you messed up so others do not do the same. No secrets....
I have since bought the repair tool and kit to replace the threads with a solid heli coil type thing. So I will be doing that once i get back into the car repairs.   Far too cold here now to think about it, even with a heated shop.  I have other things to get done before the beater and paint doesn't dry well in subzero temps.

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An insert is much better than helicoil for thread repairs. 

 

Remember you must ream the bores before fitting new plugs. 

 

Use angle turn instead of torque wrench.  Tighten by hand so you feel when they bottom out then apply 30 degrees angle turn. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, tolsen said:

An insert is much better than helicoil for thread repairs. 

 

Remember you must ream the bores before fitting new plugs. 

 

Use angle turn instead of torque wrench.  Tighten by hand so you feel when they bottom out then apply 30 degrees angle turn. 

 

 

I agree these are solid not simple heli springs so zero chance of leaking once installed.   The question is, can they be installed without dismantling the engine?   But I'm leaning towards a complete rebuild any way....while I can find the parts to do the job. Seems they are getting like chicken lips...lol

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Go for thread insert similar to these:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/US-PRO-Glow-Plug-Thread-Repair-Sleeve-Kit-Special-Car-Repair-M10-x-1-0-NEW-5857-/264208258235?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

 

Wurth Time Serts are the best but will cost you an arm and a leg. 

 

US Pro are really good tools. Made in the Far East of course as are most things these days. 

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12 minutes ago, tolsen said:

Go for thread insert similar to these:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/US-PRO-Glow-Plug-Thread-Repair-Sleeve-Kit-Special-Car-Repair-M10-x-1-0-NEW-5857-/264208258235?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

 

Wurth Time Serts are the best but will cost you an arm and a leg. 

 

US Pro are really good tools. Made in the Far East of course as are most things these days. 

That kit is similar to the one I have already purchased from Jolly Ol' England...lol...

Came a week or so ago. Just waiting for the spring weather to show it's ugly face......before opening garage door.

 

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If you bought Sealey I regret to advise Jack Sealey products are real shite so best avoided. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

8 minutes ago, tolsen said:

If you bought Sealey I regret to advise Jack Sealey products are real shite so best avoided. 

Checking now...augh.....damn you...lol

 

US-PRO......thank fully...lol

 

 

Edited by Willys

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1 hour ago, Willys said:

I agree these are solid not simple heli springs so zero chance of leaking once installed

 

if i remember right ...these glow plugs seal internally plus on a conical seat well below the threads...

 

 

mine had (and still has)  a very messed up area of thread and sealed just fine (its a long story but my first smart came into my possession with broken glow plugs...2 of which were drilled off center and 1 even came with a broken off "easy out" inside it)

 

 

easy outs should be sold only by prescription 

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1 minute ago, LooseLugNuts said:

 

if i remember right ...these glow plugs seal internally plus on a conical seat well below the threads...

 

 

mine had (and still has)  a very messed up area of thread and sealed just fine (its a long story but my first smart came into my possession with broken glow plugs...2 of which were drilled off center and 1 even came with a broken off "easy out" inside it)

 

 

easy outs should be sold only by prescription 

You are correct, but any added security of zero leakage I'll take. Plus the whole unit is a strong item over a simple heli coil. from what I can see.

  I write my own scrips...lol

 

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I replaced 3 today with no issues today.

Remember to take out that T10 bolt on the right side so that you can get the fuel supply lines and the tray out of the way.

Then use lots of penetrating oil and drive the car to heat up the block.

When installing the new glow plugs torque to 15Nm.

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I got #1 and #3 loose. #2 is making me nervous. I'm going to leave it for today then go for another driver tomorrow to heat it up again. If that doesn't work, I'll just change the 2 and hope for the best. (I just don't like doing 2/3rds of a job).

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That's the way! Use more penetrating oil and try again.

I use a 50/50 combo of acetone and ATF as my penetrating oil.

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I was working #3 back and forth so many times trying to slowly back it out, I think it expanded a bit and started to squeek. 

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I've heard that before and those will come out!

After you make sure that it's cleared the threads you might have to lever it out.

I use needle nose vise grips attached to the plug, some wood strips over the fuel lines and a long screw driver to lever up the vise grips.

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