Goes through gears when turning key

[Norway450 0]

Hi, Rolf from Norway here, I have a 2001 City-coupe.

 

Gear box goes to 6th gear and back to N when turning the key.

Usually I can then drive it without any problems, but sometimes one of two tings happen (usually in the morning):

1: It will not go into 1 or R, just making rythmic clunking noises. I have confirmed this to be the clutch servo not opening the clutch enough.

2: it will go in gear, but as soon as I press the throttle the car lurches forward.

I have cleaned and checked the angle sensor, clutch servo, gear change servo and wires.

Also checked the brain box next to the air filter for water ingress.

 

I think the root cause is that the gearbox electronis does not know which gear it is in, and then goes end to end to find out. I can see the voltage drop as the gear servo hits both ends.

Therefore I have ordered a new gear angle sensor.

 

Any tips?

 

Video:

 

 

[Willys 741]

I would find someone with a STAR system and get the transmission re-taught back in...? Check to see if your clutch fork hasn't been punched through, the push rod from the actuator hasn't pushed through that clutch fork arm. I saw a threaded rod in your video clip, whats that for? Next to or behind the actuator?  Looked very freshly used.

[AHZELA 12]

Gear position sensor is the easy one to replace. Get a good look at wires.. I had 2 breaks and the lead to the same issue. 

[tolsen 630]

The usual trouble caused by faults in part of wiring harness going to transmission. 

 

Fix those those and your Smart is likely to be fine. 

 

 

Shift drum turning angle sensor is prone to failure due to water ingress. This sensor is purely a 5k linear potentiometer and water will ruin it. Easily checked by visual examination once off and with a multimeter. Clean area of transmission where it seals and apply grease when refitting. Note that the two bolts that hold it in place are likely to be seized. 

 

Wiring harness.

Thoroughly inspect visually. Typically it may have chafing damage in way of contact with intercooler support cradle and at ends of protective sleeves just before plugs on leads to clutch actuator and gear shift actuator. 

 

Repair by splicing and soldering. You will need hydrochloric acid solution to clean up black oxidised copper to bright such that solder will wet cable for good contact.  Use adhesive lined heat shrink tubing. 

 

 

[Norway450 0]

On 4/4/2019 at 0:16 AM, Willys said:

I would find someone with a STAR system and get the transmission re-taught back in...? Check to see if your clutch fork hasn't been punched through, the push rod from the actuator hasn't pushed through that clutch fork arm. I saw a threaded rod in your video clip, whats that for? Next to or behind the actuator?  Looked very freshly used.

 

I do not know of someone with a STAR system.

The fork had a small hole through, so I added a sleeve to the push rod.

The threaded rod is the screw holding both the lid and the motor in place, I just drilled through and used M5 screws.

I fully dismantled and cleaned the servo, so I had to drill and tap M4 bolts to keep the lid on.

Also I had to fix one of the broken mounts.

Despite the warnings both on the net and written on the servo, it was not difficult to remove and put back the spring inside.

Here is some pictures for clarity:

 

[Norway450 0]

Thanks AHZELA and tolsen, I will take another look at the wires, and change the angle sensor.

 

[tolsen 630]

Is that silicone sealant?  Not advisable unless a neutral cure silicone. Acetoxy silicone is bad for electronic components inside actuator motor. 

A much better sealant is polyurethane like PU40. 

[Norway450 0]

Yes, it is the wrong silicone, but it is applied after I put together.

I found out many years ago when I waterproofed electronics for a R/C sea plane

[tolsen 630]

I recommend fixing your holed release fork once you get gear changes and clutch operation sorted. The Sachs release fork is very cheap costing less than £20 including release bearing. 

 

Of course also quickly repaired by welding which is what I did to mine. 

[tolsen 630]

£15.89 plus postage for release fork. 

http://autopartstechnik.co.uk/3189-000-245-releaser.html

 

£163.43 for clutch actuator.  Was less than £110 when I bought my spare. 

http://autopartstechnik.co.uk/3981-000-070-sachs-clutch-actuator.html

 

[tolsen 630]

35 minutes ago, Norway450 said:

Yes, it is the wrong silicone, but it is applied after I put together.

I found out many years ago when I waterproofed electronics for a R/C sea plane

Evilution has details for testing clutch actuator encoder.  https://www.evilution.co.uk/index.php?menu=bench testing&mod=861

[Norway450 0]

I have now checked the wiring and replaced the angle sensor.

The problem is still there.

Im out of ideas.

 

[tolsen 630]

Buy Delphi and read codes. Regrettably Delphi cannot carry out electronic clutch adjustment on a 2001 Smart but can read all systems.

Delphi can do nearly everything on a petrol Smart 450 from 2003 and on (SAM equipped Smart, not ZEE). 

[Norway450 0]

Ordered a delphi ds150e.

A new discovery about the get-in-to-gear problem: it seems to only happen when the engine is cold.

[tolsen 630]

I’ve never seen a 450 go through gears like that when stationary.

i would read fault codes if any then run gear change adaptation. Unsure if Delphi can do that on a 2001 petrol, certainly not on my 2002 diesel. 

You may need to consider investing in a clone MB Star.  Cheaper than a visit to dealer. 

 

[Willys 741]

Finally, I agree, invest in a STAR seeing as you are so far away from any real help....you'll thank me later...lol

 

 

I say you need to reteach your tranny where the gear locations are and a STAR will be able to do this either all at once or gear by gear.....also it will reteach your clutch  system......so much it can do to recoup the cost of buying it.  Key fobs, another simple thing that a stealership charges a left nut to do one! The STAR could do 6 at a time I think, reprograming fobs, simple.

 

[tolsen 630]

Think I paid £180 for my Star and another £50 to the Queen in fees and taxes.  I run it on a Dell Latitude D630 Laptop that I acquired second hand for a few Pounds. Got it set up to communicate through serial port and TAN free coding following guide on Evilution. 

Well worth the investment. Use my Star nearly weekly to assist garages and owners. 

[Norway450 0]

I finally got access to a code reader:

Picture 1 and 2: Present codes before clearing them.

Picture 3: Version numbers.

Picture 9: Codes remaining after clearing. Currently the EGR, intake air temperature sensor and Auxillary heater is not connected.

Picture 4: Codes after a failed drive off: car lurches forward. The new codes is P1917.40h (Overcurrent cutout in transmission at duty cycle >0 :Function faulure.) and P2408 (Transmission: incremental sensor)

Picture 5-8: Sensor readouts.

 

Then I disconnected and reconnected the battery, and it works without failure!

 

I noticed before the battery disconnect and reconnect, the 1914 Actual cluch position readout where frozen at 254 (even if it clearly moved since car lurches forward when pressing the throttle), and after, when things worked, it changed as expected when I pressed the trottle.

 

My thoughts is that there is an condition that prevents it from working, and a battery disconnect and reconnect clears it.

 

Any thougths?

 

 

[tolsen 630]

The Smart engine control unit works in mysterious ways is all I can say.  The only relevant current fault code as far as I can tell was P2408 which, I believe, is the incremental sensor that is built into gear change motor.  Disconnecting battery does sometimes sort out problems but not always.

[Norway450 0]

Does anyone know how much work it is to calibrate the gear angle sensor with a star system?

Or does know the procedure?

I want to be prepared when I take my sweet little car to the repair shop.

 

[tolsen 630]

Once Star is connected and gear change adaption is selected, the teach procedure takes less than five seconds. 

I offer gear change adaption for a good pub pint of ale. 

[Willys 741]

Takes longer to enjoy said pint than do the work.....I do it two or three times just to be 100% sure it's done right....but once is probably enough....I'm just anal that way.
That is unless Tolsen chugs his pints...lol

 

[Norway450 0]

First, the clutch problem seem to have fixed itself. Maybe I put to much silicone grease in the cluch servo?

Only the gear confusion is remaining.

 

OK, so I went to the shop...

I told them to do a transmission adaption, and to verify the output of the gear angle sensor if that is not sucsessful.

The mechanic come back, saying that he was not able to due to the error codes, and that the gear change motor has to be replaced...

I told him that what I had done, and that the gearbox works perfecly when driving.

Then he really did not know what to to, and wanted to keep the car for furter diagnosis.

I declined.

I do not think he or anybody there really undestand the problem.

 

He said that the gear angle sensor worked, but I think he was looking at the indicated gear value.

 

But the car is usable, so I do not think I do more with it.

[Willys 741]

He just wants you to spend money while he tries to figure it out, also isn't very helpful without getting paid for his knowledge...imho.

Did he use a STAR system or just another reader..?  I bet he can simply retrain it using the STAR. It'll show the gear locations and then train it to go back to where they should be for each gear......unless that plug for the gear selector isn't connecting correctly. Have you unplugged that and taken a good look at the pins etc...sorry didn't read everything.....just thinking on the fly so to speak. If it moves it is a computer issue no..?   The computer doesn't know where it is so it throws a code..?  Thats where the STAR comes in and why you need one to solve these issues....
I could be wrong but it makes sense to me.

lol

 

Don't give up just yet......

[tolsen 630]

Relevant fault codes have to be addressed before you can teach in gear changes.  Kindly post the fault codes including their description.