Let's discuss PHEV offerings on the market

[Willys 303]

6 hours ago, Chopper said:

Complaining that you live eleventy-twelve miles from the nearest shops won't put food in your mouths.  This is likely to be the largest non-conflict societal change in the history of modern Western civilisation.  It is unstoppable, it is inevitable, it is coming.  Get on board, or get left behind, and getting left behind has consequences too vast to comprehend.

This is the biggest issue that you just can't comprehend my friend.....England is a speck on the globe size wise and population density wise......it's far too over crowded and thus is prime location for just such a trial for your black magic vehicles. It will work in just such a location because of all these circumstances.   Now leave your over crowded countries and cities etc etc...and move to a country where space is abundant and far fetched.  Your black magic vehicles will never work UNTIL they master the distance issue between charge stations and that means a return trip, not got fetch your groceries and then sit and wait for your vehicle to recharge for hours. It takes 20 minutes to get to the store, 20 minutes on a good day to buy said groceries then what..?   Walk around with melting food etc or sit and have a coffee at semi local coffee shop thinking of your food swetting in a hot vehicle until gooo....? You can chant it's coming all you like, but until this distance issue is beaten, it'll never work in countries where many many people live outside of our urban city centers. Sure it works within these areas where we also have the population dencity, but that is the only place it'll work.    So, I'll wait impatiently for the magic to happen and they solve the battery life problem.....OR drop the cost of a tesla, which already does have the range required. 
Don't forget we must kill all cows and any other farting mammals to help stop the climate, resulting in no milk, cheese and any food made from said raw materials. Hmmmmm.....that means no pizza, burgers, BACON....AUGH...! Milkshakes     mind you I personally haven't had a milkshake in years....!   Sounds very similar to the margerin rant and butter almost a century ago....remember..?   Seems we were right back then also,, butter is better for us over margerin ...something even flies don't want to eat off of or sit on....why is that?   Sounds very much like the new beef burgers, are they plant based or chemically based...time will tell on that also....I'll bet we find 100% beef is far better for us....lol.

So have at the Black Magic vehicle stance all you wish.......just remember there are far more people living further than their return range than you seem to think.

Just saying.

[darren 163]

Even the very idea of car ownership makes less and less sense. Look around at how much of the landscape is dedicated to cars. Roadways, parking lots, parking structures, private parking spaces and garages. Gas stations, car dealerships, used car lots, car storage facilities… scrap yards, auto recyclers, heaps of used tires.

 

The average car sits unused 95% of the time. It makes no sense to own a depreciating asset that isn’t even used to its full capacity. Car sharing, ride-sharing, subscription-based co-ownership, and transportation-on-demand will be new models going forward. Tesla is pushing hard into full autonomy, because it will unlock the ability for people to summon cars when they need them, and for car owners to have their cars earn their keep by shuttling other people around while not being used. 

 

Cheap cars are and cheap fuel changed the way cities are designed, and have altered the way we live and work for the last century. That’s about to change again. 

[Leadwing 374]

If nothing else, this thread Is good for my morning laughs.

 

22 minutes ago, Willys said:

. Don't forget we must kill all cows and any other farting mammals to help stop the climate …………. Seems we were right back then also,, butter is better for us over margarine ...something even flies don't want to eat off of or sit on....why is that?   

 

Termites produce more fart gases than cows.                Margarine is one molecule short of being plastic    

[Willys 303]

8 minutes ago, darren said:

Even the very idea of car ownership makes less and less sense. Look around at how much of the landscape is dedicated to cars. Roadways, parking lots, parking structures, private parking spaces and garages. Gas stations, car dealerships, used car lots, car storage facilities… scrap yards, auto recyclers, heaps of used tires.

 

The average car sits unused 95% of the time. It makes no sense to own a depreciating asset that isn’t even used to its full capacity. Car sharing, ride-sharing, subscription-based co-ownership, and transportation-on-demand will be new models going forward. Tesla is pushing hard into full autonomy, because it will unlock the ability for people to summon cars when they need them, and for car owners to have their cars earn their keep by shuttling other people around while not being used. 

 

Cheap cars are and cheap fuel changed the way cities are designed, and have altered the way we live and work for the last century. That’s about to change again. 

Spoken by another urban dwelling person.....I agree IF we all lived within your tiny world needs.....again. relocate and see if your thoughts translate out in the country?   Just saying.   

[Willys 303]

Just another thought...?
So you make everything battery operated......what damages mining for those raw materials deliver onto our planet now and in the long run...?   I don't know but have seen some nasty scars digging them up...etc etc.   Also how much of that does the planet hold...?   Has that even been discussed? Can we recycle these power sources to try and keep the damages at a minimum..?  What are the pollution numbers on making batteries so we can help save the planet...? 

It all sounds so neat and tidy if you don't look at the whole picture...but when you look closer, is it still so clean?      Raw materials to recycling possibilities....?

[darren 163]

2 hours ago, Willys said:

Spoken by another urban dwelling person.....I agree IF we all lived within your tiny world needs.....again. relocate and see if your thoughts translate out in the country?   Just saying.   

 

My tiny world needs? More people live in cities than live in the country. And you talk about driving 20 minutes to the store and then having to charge to get home? You're talking out of your ass.

 

You need to come to terms with the fact that your exurban lifestyle is made entirely possible by the internal combustion engine and the car. You're having your cake and eating it too by living remotely enough to have lots of space, but close enough to populated areas that you have things like stores and markets to go to.

 

You've been fortunate enough to choose a lifestyle that involves little or no compromise. Well guess what? Change is coming, and that means it's time for everyone to start thinking about what it means to live sustainably and within our planet's means to support us.

 

Your whataboutism aside, battery technology is not perfect, but it is constantly being improved by new battery chemistries that are less resource intensive. And the faster we transition away from fossil fuel power plants, the better. Solar and wind power are coming on strong and dropping precipitously in price. 

 

You can kick up a fuss and resist the change all you want, but the change is coming, and people way smarter than you and me are working on it. So either get on board, or fall behind.

[Willys 303]

LOL...you make me laugh.......I'm not in the sticks, just far enough away from the city and it's nightly shootings and muggings, and lets not talk about the dome of shiat you live under because of all the pollution that's concentrated around you , why, because there are so many people too closely packed within a square mile. Hmmm......lets see, I choose to live so far away because of how many reasons....one main one would be house prices, then the list just gets started!  I would wonder what a home would cost if it was transported to lets say downtown Toronto, that sits on just over an acre with mature trees, enough grass and foliage to almost negate my personal pollution footprint..?  Hmmm...can I count high enough? OR be able to pay it off in two or maybe 3 lifetimes? So, living 20 minutes away from the closest grocery store is a perk..?  How's that?  Almost too far from a gas station to walk easily to when I need fuel if i run out? I own a generator for when our power goes out in a wind storm etc.....3 sump pumps to keep me from owning a indoor swimming pool each spring....? And a lawn tractor that uses more fuel than my Smart does to fill. It'll take me 1 1/2 hours to rip through the lawn grass cutting in a few hours on a 5 foot wide cutting deck, then a few more hours to trim her up. How big is your postage stamp lawn? OR property? 
You city dwellers can have all the easily accessable  amenities you can think of....I'll trade it for the fresh air and peace and quiet, safe neighborhood, wildlife, camp fires,  any day of the week.  
I have commuted down into the dome of shiat for years.....definately not what i would choose to do again for any amount of money.  Life is too short to waste it chasing funds and thinking you are further ahead of us simple bumpkin's living too far away from the nasty dirty urban sprawl.....so rant and rave about the black magic crap all you want, if you think things will change in my lifetime...I recommend you hold your breath.....lol   I'll watch and wait....lets see who wins.

Going now for another 20 minute drive to buy a pizza, in the totally opposite direction, by the way.   Fresh pizza...lol....preheated is more like it....but I still prefer that to risking getting shot either going 2 minutes or the delivery person when the door opens....lol

 

Have a nice night....I'll be listening to the coyotes howling to each other, watching the night sky and if it's clear, the stars and shooting stars and all the metal objects as they circle the earth.     You...?   Sirens, flashing lights, gun shots........or maybe just the hum off the local freeways?

 

 

You really need to stop taking this so personal....I don't.....lol.....anyone can choose to live where I do....it's far cheaper than in a city....maybe ....think about it...?

[darren 163]

I'm living exactly where I choose to as well, and loving it just fine.

[Chopper 223]

Absolutely, go for it.  When there's no fossil fuel you're lifestyle will simply change to accommodate that. The alternative is to starve to death, and even the most rabid fossil fuel loving braggart won't fancy that option.

 

And that's my whole point.  Folk talk tough, but talk isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

I live in the boonies, but I've been cycling most journeys for decades so I'm already insulated from any such changes.  The only real crimp on me would be getting to search and rescue callouts, but then that's not me being affected but rather the poor Schmoe that needs help.  When it comes to those forthcoming societal changes I'm pretty well set already.  Everyone else will change, talk tough a bit and then change, or starve/freeze to death.  Carry on as we currently are indefinitely simply isn't on the list.

[Henry 23]

Since this thread has gotten so far off the topic track.  

I have solved the climate issue so thought I would use this thread to announce it to the world.

Since the world on the whole is warming, melting the Arctic and Antarctic ice, causing the oceans around the world to slowly rise.  Think of all the places below sea level.  If we flooded just the Dead Sea depression (413 metres below sea level) and the Caspian depression at over 77000 square miles it would lower the worlds oceans taking the pressure off of the highly populated coastal areas,  increase areas of fish habitat (more food) and having covered so much land with highly reflective water the earth would begin to cool.  Climate issue avoided.  We could also flood the Salton sea area adding more tourist dollars to the USA and Mexico.

Your welcome world.

[Willys 303]

6 hours ago, Henry said:

Since this thread has gotten so far off the topic track.  

I have solved the climate issue so thought I would use this thread to announce it to the world.

Since the world on the whole is warming, melting the Arctic and Antarctic ice, causing the oceans around the world to slowly rise.  Think of all the places below sea level.  If we flooded just the Dead Sea depression (413 metres below sea level) and the Caspian depression at over 77000 square miles it would lower the worlds oceans taking the pressure off of the highly populated coastal areas,  increase areas of fish habitat (more food) and having covered so much land with highly reflective water the earth would begin to cool.  Climate issue avoided.  We could also flood the Salton sea area adding more tourist dollars to the USA and Mexico.

Your welcome world.

Hmmmm.........but then what would all the climate change disaster folks do for money if they can't tax us to death then.....what new issue would they dream up next....?     The Oceans are dwindling......we'll run out of drinkable water..?  They just won't tell us idiots it's salt water...lol

 

 

[Willys 303]

8 hours ago, Chopper said:

Absolutely, go for it.  When there's no fossil fuel you're lifestyle will simply change to accommodate that. The alternative is to starve to death, and even the most rabid fossil fuel loving braggart won't fancy that option.

 

And that's my whole point.  Folk talk tough, but talk isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

I live in the boonies, but I've been cycling most journeys for decades so I'm already insulated from any such changes.  The only real crimp on me would be getting to search and rescue callouts, but then that's not me being affected but rather the poor Schmoe that needs help.  When it comes to those forthcoming societal changes I'm pretty well set already.  Everyone else will change, talk tough a bit and then change, or starve/freeze to death.  Carry on as we currently are indefinitely simply isn't on the list.

Hmmm....I bet most of us country folk could survive far longer without modern tech compared to the urban dwelling folks.....imho.     They would have such a much further walk or cycle to a green patch to grow food compared to us country folk who could grow it in our own back yards...and fresh water from our own dug wells.....compared to city folks looking for those weeds growing between cracks in the cement or the clean waters of where.....the Don River etc.....augh...!....lol.

[smart142 436]

9 hours ago, Henry said:

Since this thread has gotten so far off the topic track.  

 

 

I agree and think it would be wise to lock it down.

Peace brothers!