Enduring limp mode

[Tut 11]

Hello boys I'm you but have read so much I feel like I know you all.  Hoping you SMARTYgeniuses can offer some thoughts!

My main question is whether or not a buried code can maintain limp mode.

A brief history goes like bought the car with 70 thousand easy k's then an immediate remap by Eddie.

Routine oil changes and at around 90 periodic limp mode started that was reset with a  rest /ignition off.  100 k now on clock.

Numbers1 and 2 (mainly #2)injectors leaked a bit then later a fair bit car began to smoke and grossly underperform, then an EGR cleaning then ran like a race car for 3 weeks then gagged for good, smoke and choked.

 

 

Into shop for the following:

1. Egr out with blocking plate and emulator in;

2. Complete audit of all intake air hoses, intercooler, Turbo, connections, air filter, muffler, no leaks or obstructions;

3. Oil can with lots of ventilation added;

4. Many battery disconnections for limp reset;

5. Number one and two injectors (leakers) out and cleaned with good spray pattern number three is soundly stuck but was not leaking. I listen with the stethoscope and all sounds are uniform at the site of the injectors, new fire rings, no leaks;

6. Fuel filter change the old one was perfectly good;

7. No codes, at least ones that my reader would pick up, have ever been thrown;

8. Clutch actuator is properly adjusted and lubricated. Shifts and starts smooth and crisp.

 

The car now fires right up, idles nicely, no smoke, no hesitation, works great but is in enduring limp mode with maximum RPMs 3250. Also, manifold pressure seems to peak at 189 irrespective of blow-off valve adjustment. I did hear Tolson say a limp condition would cause the ECM to limit fuel so maybe in that condition it cannot generate enough turbo spin to develop full pressure?

 

I am wondering if the manifold pressure sensor ever goes haywire, if the injectors could be faulty or if it is a software problem which brings me back to whether or not I should spring to have the codes cleared (my code reader will not do it) or keep digging into the hardware. I have a whole parts car in good shape so parts are not a problem.

 

I guess the second question is do we know of anyone who has a STAR reader on Vancouver Island? I would go to Eddie Lai in a heartbeat but resist temptation to go to the Steelership.

 

Here is the catch can.

 

I really do appreciate in advance any bits of wisdom you could offer and applaud you all for your ingenuity and resourcefulness. You guys crack me right up.  thanks boys!

[Tut 11]

Sorry, the first sentence is suppose to say I am new to the forum but I have read so much...

If this is a tricky one, a simple answer to whether or not a buried code can cause an enduring limp mode would be peachy. thx in advance! t

[Willys 747]

Just a question....could your emulator have gone bad...?   Have you tried running the car with good EGR simply piggy backed in place to trick ECU...?   It's what I had to do with mine to get it to run after removing the EGR system.....didn't do it all the time but did it sometimes..?  I simply run it with the EGR strapped under the hood connected and grounded as it would be in stock form but the bypass tube is still in place etc etc.

 

[Tut 11]

It's a brand new one but I guess its possible, isn't it. I got it from Carlo a supersmart SMART guy in Pitt Meadows, it was new.

Good suggestion. I will ask him if he ever had a bad batch. 

I have heard snippits on here but my understanding is still murky on whether or not a remaining code can maintain a limp. Do you know? Thx Willys...

[Tut 11]

I meant to also ask you Willys, did you have a bad emulator you were trying to use?

[Willys 747]

I got the plans to make emulators but mine was the size of a cigarette package after all said and done to I didn't like it to start out with......looked very obvious it was there....then I had a code kick up. Can't remember what exactly it was but piggy backing the cleaned up perfectly usable old one solved that. Making your own emulator is easy if size doesn't matter as she says...lol   Bigger isn't better in this case...lol  IF you have your old EGR and it functions, it's an easy test....just ground it and plug it in and set it somewhere it won't get in the way .....and see.

Stickman007 is the guy here to get an emulator from, he has a post up somewhere stating he is making a new batch....if you need one. His are also tiny!

Edited May 5, 2019 by Willys

[Willys 747]

Your air cleaner looks dirty...maybe..?

Also check every ground pin all over the body of car and engine....they are notorious for showing to be perfectly clean but corroded after you open each one up I found.....stainless steel tooth brush and small file is a well used tool in my tool box...lol

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Willys

[Nigel 287]

32 minutes ago, Willys said:

  IF you have your old emulator and it functions, it's an easy test....

 

I think you meant EGR

[Willys 747]

1 minute ago, Nigel said:

 

I think you meant EGR

Thanks, only working on the first coffee.....lol.

 

[Tut 11]

Well thats a good tip thank you, Willys. I will tidy up the EGR and hook the dirty thing back up again.

Check the pins, too. Betting it will be something simple. Standby. I shall report dutifully. Pump 2 more coffees in, day goes better. lol

[slipperyslope 34]

curious about the oil catch can....where is this oil coming from?

[Tut 11]

Willys, or anyone, what do you make of the Absolute Manifold Pressure maximum of 189? Can limp mode activate this condition? Turbo is healthy and there are no leaks. I fussed about adjusting the wastegate and made only tiny changes.

[Tut 11]

The catch can collects fumes (vented out by vents on can) and blow-by oil mist from the crankcase. The catch can intercepts and isolates these materials, otherwise they are re-introduced into combustion via the tube from the manifold cover, re-entering just upstream of turbo.

Theory is these dirty materials are kept out of the engine keeping things cleaner, less sludge and impurities, keep engine/combustion chambers cleaner.

 

Tolsen smartguy fabbed a device that accomplishes the same things but needs no maintenance. Only he is smart (no pun) enough to do that. The rest of us Commoners use the CC. 

[Willys 747]

15 minutes ago, Tut said:

Willys, or anyone, what do you make of the Absolute Manifold Pressure maximum of 189? Can limp mode activate this condition? Turbo is healthy and there are no leaks. I fussed about adjusting the wastegate and made only tiny changes.

I do not know enough about manifold pressures yet....haven't had to investigate mine on that level yet.....sorry.

[slipperyslope 34]

the reason I asked about the catch can was whether you had excessive blowby and/or excessive oil being introduced before the turbo. if it were me, I would pop the muffler off and go for a burn up a hill with a boost guage and a pressure guage on the rail. pull the hill. if you can here the turbo spinning away but boost low, you either have a leak at intecooler or its piping, or you have an eroded impeller. if you dont hear the turbo, boost low and rail pressure good, the computer is most likely the culprit. it doesn't take a lot of oil hitting a hot aluminum impeller spinning at 30 grand to destroy it. its kind of a back yard way of diagnosing, but its free...

[Tut 11]

Really good suggestion. There are no intake air leaks anywhere, have audited whole system and there was not excessive oil in typical collection spots. I know the muffler is not obstructed. You do hear the turbo loud and proud but as you say, if there are worn blades there will never be any pressure.

 

Im gonna do Willys backyard software check first, hook up the old EGR. The chap who sold me the emulator says he has used them lots with success; I think they are the Polish ones. Then I will do your backyard turbo check. You boys are clever. thx. will report....

 

Do you know whether a buried code will maintain limp irrespective of battery disconnect reset?

[Tut 11]

Im stuck here with access only to a dealer Star scan. I wonder if we know of anyone on Vancouver Island with Star software?

[Willys 747]

I think I have seen someone who had one in your area .....can't remember who....?

I do not think simply disconnecting the battery will erase the codes you are after...?

 

I'll bet if you are down on power you have rub throughs on the intercooler and don't see it yet. Mine was perfectly clean compared to a few I have seen with holes. So like you I didn't think it was damaged yet. It was.....JBWeld fix it...lol.    For how long I can't say but far cheaper than a new one!!!!

Also, if you have bad nozzles I know for a fact they make a huge difference if you change them....mender is the guy for those. They are like chicken lips and extremely hard to find.....but he has a connection and they are pricey....but again far cheaper than new injectors!

 

[tolsen 630]

Tee in a pressure gauge and measure boost pressure. 

 

Invest in a Star clone if you intend to keep your Smart car. 

[slipperyslope 34]

2 hours ago, tolsen said:

Tee in a pressure gauge and measure boost pressure. 

 

Invest in a Star clone if you intend to keep your Smart car. 

if you went on amazon.ca right now, which one would you get??

[Nigel 287]

Tut

Your maximum MAP reading is a little low mine tops out around 215.  Could be wastegate adjustment, a wastegate that doesn’t fully close, hole in intercooler or intake plumbing or weak fuel delivery.  Now if you got that number when in limp mode I would be impressed.  

Just my two cents, I’m certainly not an expert.

Nigel

[Sydney 218]

One of my 05 cabrios was stuck in limp mode. 

There was no codes, the check engine light was on but for a faulty glow plug ciircuit.

After searching and reading a bunch of forms I finally looked at the plug going to the EGR solinoid.   It turns out the both end pins were spread open so they were not making good contact. I fixed the pins and limp mode is now gone.

This is what I encountered, your case is probably not going to be as easy because you have already bypassed the EGR with the emulator. But you might want to have a look at the harness that your emulator is plugged into.

[Tut 11]

Tolsen wrote:

Tee in a pressure gauge and measure boost pressure. 

 

Invest in a Star clone if you intend to keep your Smart car. 

 

 

 

 

Thank you! I was thinking I would pop the gauge off the parts car onto the limper? Would that accomplish the end you had in mind; if readings were identical that would tell...

Glad you brought up the matter of the Star. Is there a reader you can buy, I wonder. I was looking at the Star software and a Dell computer they talk about and too much tinkering around... every guy should have one, as you say. Have I heard you mention Delphi?

 

Also, on the matter of the turbo being worn out, just a week earlier, 3 weeks after I cleaned the EGR it was F1 all the way, zoom. Then it gakked over another 50 K with all the symptoms of a plugged EGR. I cleaned it in situ did not get a good crack at the valve so I thought it might be sticking or something. In any event, there were no catastrophes associate with the turbo and it didnt wear out in 50K's so I think the compressor is fine.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Tut

[Tut 11]

Thank you! I was thinking I would pop the gauge off the parts car on there? Would that accomplish the end you had in mind; if readings were identical that would tell...

Glad you brought up the matter of the Star. Is there a reader you can buy, I wonder. I was looking at the Star software and a Dell computer they talk about and too much tinkering around... every guy should have one, as you say. Have I heard you mention Delphi?

[Tut 11]

Nigel wrote:

Tut

Your maximum MAP reading is a little low mine tops out around 215.  Could be wastegate adjustment, a wastegate that doesn’t fully close, hole in intercooler or intake plumbing or weak fuel delivery.  Now if you got that number when in limp mode I would be impressed.  

Just my two cents, I’m certainly not an expert.

Nigel

 

Nigel thank you... pretty sure there are no leaks in the intake air system, had it all apart and pressure tested everything. 190 in limp mode all shes gonna deliver. I did move the adjustment around and wasnt able to get more than 190, it did trim back a bit, though.