Bu5Drv3r

05 fortwo cdi starting, stalling, knocking HELP

42 posts in this topic

Hi peeps,

 

I'm a long time creeper, first time poster. I just picked up a 2005 fortwo cdi that was already broken. I'm quite handy as I have a shop at home and was an automotive apprentice for years. 

 

It was running when i got it. Checked compression, 250psi across all three cylinders. 

 

Cleaned the injectors, now it runs poorly. Cleaned EGR it woke up for a bit now it's back to running rough. 

 

I cleaned the injectors again and now it will start then stall when the IC fan kicks on.  

 

Can anyone point me in another direction??!!. I know @stickman007 is local (Edmonton) so I'm begging for help!

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Check all local ground pins, in the engine bay. When you cleaned your injectors, did you install new crush washers??  As for the EGR system, all hoses perfect, clamps all tight? What about heat hose gasket...running off EGR..leaking? Inter cooler rubbed through..?  I would buy one of Izzy's emulators and get rid of EGR also. He'll show you how to by pass it if he's close enough and not busy  as all heck as he usually is.  He also has a STAR to help diagnose things for you.....

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Is the fuel fresh?  .. It can make a difference.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Thanks for the replies!

 

I dont think I described the situation as best that I could. 

 

I bought the car this week as a  non-runner. It's a 2005 CDI with 162k . The previous owner couldn't figure out what was going on with it but said that it ran rough and it couldn't be driven. He had obviously tore into it as the battery compartment was open, injectors were loose in the holes and the glow plugs were unplugged. 

 

Once I got it to my place, I reinstalled the injectors and plugged in the glow plugs and it fired up. It ran rough, knocked and was billowing out black smoke. But it would idle without stalling. 

 

So I first tore apart the egr and was able to clean it out. I did notice a bit of light between the seals on the valve openings but I didnt think it would be a big deal. Once I put it back in it actually ran better and wasnt knocking as much. So I attempted to drive it but it would not rev up, lurched violently and eventually stalled.

 

Then I took the injectors out and let them soak for the night. In the morning I used a toothbrush and cleaned the nozzles best I could. I then re-installed the injectors and it still ran rough. 

 

So I pulled the injectors again and performed a compression test with the injector holes and a push in style tester. I know it's not the proper procedure but it's all I had on hand. All three cylinders were around 250psi if not higher.

 

I put the injectors back in, it had a hard time starting back up (maybe diesel got into the cylinders?) But once it did it run, it was rough again. Only this time, it stalled after 10-15sec. Only way I could keep it running was to get the revs around 2500-3k and hold it there. Once I let go though, it'd stall right out.

 

And that's where I'm at now. I'm ready to pull the engine at this point and just go through everything piece by piece. 

 

Also, I havent heard the turbo spin up once since I've had it. Is that because I cant get it to rev up under load or is that possibly another one of its issues?

 

Thanks again folks!

 

 

 

 

Edited by Bu5Drv3r

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In response to Willys, I'd gladly rid myself of the EGR and purchase the emulator. 

 

Leadwing- I'm not sure on the age of the fuel as I understand it's been down for some time. I've also reached out to the previous owner to see if he could atleast tell me what he got into with the machine but he hasn't responded. 

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I would suggest fresh fuel also, start with the simple things first. 

 

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I'll also bet unless that inter cooler is newish looking, it's rubbed through badly.....it can be repaired backyard mechanic style using JBWeld and a few hours of prep work, I've done a few now with great results. But it takes time and patience. The area must be 100% clean and you must remove the fins from the lower 1/2" to be able to clean the damaged tubes and also to allow JBWeld to get around the tubes to get a solid grasp or they will leak once again I'm sure. 5 minutes epozy the liquidy type not the solid bar is what you need of JBWeld. Also plenty of engine degreaser and acetone. Then trim the scoop back 1/4 - 1/2 inch so it never happens again.
Then see if the waste gate rod moves it's another siezing issue area....
You can buy a semi decent diesel compression tester off of Amazon for cheap for the amount of times you will be using it......takes a few weeks but I think you need more compression...?

Also check fuel pressure hi and low. Then fuel filter.....?   And the simplist good fuel as already said.....K.I.S.S. works well....lol

 

 

Hmmmm.....unless the battery was unhooked when someone was messing with wiring in the positive way......possibly the ECU got damaged....? Beware of a capacitor discharging across pins....ask me how i know....augh!
Read up on SAM issues with cold solder joints as there are many. Or burnt pins....

Good Luck......patience is a good thing to have with these little cars but once you get it running, you'll love it!

 

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Sounds like it runs out of fuel....but the popping sounds like when one of my injectors leaked!

 

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I wonder if it's a bit of both. The stalling seemed to follow my injector cleaning.... it ran the same before just didnt stall out on me. 

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Did you use new crush washers...If not it sounds like they are leaking.

 

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I'll have to pick some up this week when I'm back in the city. I'll post an update once I have them in.

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Sounds identical to mine that had a hard time starting and staying running and hardly was able to rev up. It too would stall after about 10 seconds - when the alternator cut in. The engine didn't have enough power to stay running with the extra load and stalled, just like in your video. As soon as the dash lights brightened a bit (alternator cutting in), the engine would slow and quit.

 

A new set of injector nozzles fixed mine and it's been running great ever since. My injector nozzles were rusty and only three of the five orifices on each were passing fuel. You may have pushed some carbon into those orifices when you soaked (softened) then scrubbed them. Removing the nozzles is easy and you can check the spray pattern once they're off using a can of WD-40 and straw to pressure the nozzle up from the inside. Just be careful as you're unscrewing the nozzle retaining nut so that you don't lose any parts, and that you see how those parts are arranged inside the end of the injector. It took me less than an hour from start to finish to install the new injector nozzles and fire rings.

 

Checking the spray pattern would be my next step. PM me if you need new nozzles, they're much cheaper than new or even rebuilt injectors.

Edited by mender
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P.S I installed a blocking plate under my EGR and left it plugged in, no emulator and no issues that I know of.

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Happy to take look at it without charging :)

I do have a proper diesel compression tester if you want to borrow it as well. STAR I will not lend out, but can scan for free if you’re in the Edmonton area.

 

Doesn’t sound like an EGR issue at this point. Like mender says, no need for emulator if the EGR solenoid is still good - a block plate or cartridge rotation is just as is effective with a clean valve body.

 

I have a few extra injector seals that I stock as the dealership often don’t carry in stock for some reason. I think I paid around ~$1.50/each from MB West.

 

izzy

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I managed to pick up half a dozen crush washers yesterday from the dealer and a diesel compression tester. Im hoping to find time this week to throw the them back in and if the issue is still there, im pulling the glow plugs and doing a proper compression test.

 

Ill post an update once when I have something!

 

 

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If you haven't taken out the glow plugs yet, the engine needs to be hot if possible for best results, then very careful pressure removing them back and forth to keep threads clean and not strip them....if you need to read about it there is plenty of threads with suggestions and mishaps....lol.  Just saying...beware.

 

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Well......I went to install the injectors by cleaning out the holes and discovered that when I blow compressed air in cylinder 2, it comes out of cylinder 3.......I'm not a genius or anything but my guess is the head gasket is blow between the cylinders.....

 

 

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I'm also thinking I may have causes this by getting some diesel down the holes when I was attempting to half assed do a compression test through the injector holes.... let me know if I'm wrong as I'm going to start pulling the motor.

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2 hours ago, Bu5Drv3r said:

Well......I went to install the injectors by cleaning out the holes and discovered that when I blow compressed air in cylinder 2, it comes out of cylinder 3.......I'm not a genius or anything but my guess is the head gasket is blow between the cylinders.....

 

 

Stuck valves? 

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Could be! Either way the heads coming off. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

So! I was talking to a buddy at work who asked if both intake or exhaust valves could have been opened, allowing the compressed air to leak between. I felt like an idiot for not trying it so I thought I'd give it a shot.

 

I of course couldn't find a firing order specifically to this engine so when I got home, I turned the engine half a turn and now there is no air leaking between the cylinders!

 

So I'm going back to throwing the new crush washers in and giving it a shot. Obviously I'll attempt the glow plugs after it runs (hopefully) for a bit.

Edited by Bu5Drv3r
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So the engine has valve overlap!  Interesting.....

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Well fellas, I threw the new crush washers on and put the injectors back in. I went to start it and it eventually ran making the same noise until it stalled again, just like the above video. I went to start it once more only for it to make what I will describe as a "clunk :banghead:" and now it spins over with what appears to be no compression. :censored:

 

Now im into pulling the motor and Im trying to decide if I should just spend the money and purchase another good running used engine to throw in and then rebuild this one for the shelf or just rebuild the one I have........Let me know your thoughts!

 

Obviously at this point I dont know if the injectors are pooched or that this engine has not suffered a catastrophic internal failure. Im hoping to decide by this weekend as I would actually like to drive this thing by the end of July.

 

John

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