Bu5Drv3r

05 fortwo cdi starting, stalling, knocking HELP

42 posts in this topic

I would take engine out asap, then do a fast break down and peek to see if it's a really obvious thing or not....if it is and a fixable thing, fix it and get it back in again......but, it may take time and money to get a complete rebuild done....compared to simply risking a running engine and swapping it in.    BUT...the money you spend on a good runner could have been spent on new bits for a rebuilt engine..?  I have a good runner here waiting for just the same thing.....to use as a runner so I can either rebuild it or one of my engines.....Hmmmm.....?     This is why i say tear the damaged engine down fast to look for a cheap fix, if so use the money to repair it instead of buying another engine.  Choices decissions.....augh.....lol

 

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pull it out before making any choices

 

once its out it will be easy to check things like valves and timing chain...if theres no compression it should be something obvious

 

and its got to come out either way anyways

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So I got into it this week.

20190625_153116_zpsmxwcuxcc.jpg

 

And opened the valve cover

 

20190625_140153_zpsf5oel1rh.jpg

 

One of these things is not like the others...

20190625_140158_zpsketvaqzb.jpg

 

Obviously I'll be pulling the head next and letting you know what I find!

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Looks like Cam, lifters, and a valve job. the sound in the video sounded like it, Been down that road with other cars and trucks I've had. Changed that, and it's like a new ride. 

Edited by Wild!

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Can someone tell me how to get the tensioner  guide from the timing chain unattached from the head or the tensioner? The heads ready to be pulled but the alldata directions make no mention of it and I cant see a solution without pulling the timing cover. 

 

And before its mentioned, the timing chain and other parts are new, that's why I dont want to pull the cover unless I have to!

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i remember some kind of pin or pin bolt thru the side cover but its been awhile...im sure someone who remembers will chime in if you wait a bit more

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Posted (edited) · Report post

post number 9 refreshes my memory a bit....pins with threads in them that you use a bolt and spacer to pull them out

 

 

 

Edited by LooseLugNuts

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Thank you sooo much! I feel like an idiot as the solution was so simple. Atleast I didnt break it!

 

There was no contact between the valve and piston. The valve is straight and doesnt appear to be damaged at all. 

 

It appears the lifter failed and only half of it is left in its place. The other half was located on it's way down to the oil pan. The valve keepers are MIA. 

 

At this point I'm going to redo the valves, seals, springs, keepers, lifters and rockers. I may replace the cam but I dont think there was sufficient damage to the lobes based on looking at it after the clean up.

20190627_170845_zpsqgj7uunj.jpg

 

20190627_170904_zpsl9jkqhmj.jpg

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Well folks, the cylinder head is scrap. I couldnt for the life of me extract the remaining half of the lifter (exhaust, cylinder #3) as there obviously was some damage in the bore from the shrapnel when it failed.

 

Based on all of the issues with the existing head, I went with a replacement. I purchased a "low mileage" used one from BC, replaced the lifters and cleaned everything else up. The lifters I removed from the "low mileage" head were on the verge of breaking off. You could see the top half of the lifters were actually bent and ready to blow and it wasnt just one of them, almost all of them had the same damage.

 

In the end, I replaced the head, lifters, head bolts, head gasket, injector crush washers (3rd set now) and the oil pan (drain plug design). I also inspected all of the components in the timing cover and determined that all of the timing components sprockets, oil sprockets and chains have all been replaced prior so I saved some money there.

 

Here is a short video of the first start.

 

 

 

 

As discused, the lifters should be changed at the same interval as the timing chain (around 150k) otherwise its just a time bomb ready to go. I do not have the maintenance records from this vehicle so I cant speak to the care the car has received but after pulling the oil pan and noticing the lack of sludge and observing the amount of parts replaced prior, I dont believe it was abused in any manor. Hopefully it behaves for the next 160k.

 

Thanks again for everyone's help!

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might be able to save it if you can find an oldschool type machine shop with an old experienced owner.....the older guys arent afraid to try something like lifter bore sleeving

 

if its full of younger workers forget it....

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21 minutes ago, LooseLugNuts said:

might be able to save it if you can find an oldschool type machine shop with an old experienced owner.....the older guys arent afraid to try something like lifter bore sleeving

 

if its full of younger workers forget it....

I agree or a young guy with old school mentality......I know of just such a machinist....he's been building my engines for over a decade now.  Not one issue  touch wood.....so far.
He'll be looking over my engine one day soon.

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The one variable that does not appear in the "150,000+ km time bomb" statement is the degree to which the engine you bought that was already blown up was over-revved, and how long it was driven with a failing timing chain sprocket.  I can say that in my experience there are five or ten testimonials of 250,000+ km for every horror story like this.

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As mentioned, I cant say for certain that the car was cared for and driven properly before I purchased it as it was already broken. 

 

I was basing my belief on my observations on the engine internals when I disassembled the engine and on the replacement head.

The engine internals were clean, no sludge ANYWHERE. The car also only has 162k and had all of the sprockets and chains replaced.

 

Both heads displayed the same lifter failure just at different stages. If I left the lifters that came in the replacement head, it would have had the same exact failure. 

 

I was merely suggesting that if your engine is around the 150k mark and your going to dig into it to replace the cam sprocket, chains and oil pump sprockets, that perhaps you remove the cam and replace the lifters and rockers. 

 

I paid around 20 bucks a lifter. That's a small price to pay with everything involved. The headbolts from mercedes are now going for over $30 (x8) a bolt. Not to mention the replacement head and everything else. Thankfully I wasnt driving it when the lifter let go as I can imagine the damage would have been far worse. 

 

This is obviously just my opinion as all of you have more experience with these vehicles than I do. That's why I'm here. It's my first diesel fortwo as the previous model i owned was a 09 451 that had it's own set of issues. 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

i changed my lifters because i didnt like the way they collapsed so easily just by squeezing them in my hand...i tried cleaning them and still didnt like how they felt

 

i remember not being able to find reasonably priced ones in Canada and Tolsen helped me out when id first joined here

 

$30 a bolt is probably why i reused the old ones....for torque to yields i generally go the cheap route and just check them for over-stretch against a straightedge....never had a problem yet...used to find lots of stretched ones on old chrysler 2.2L but i had plenty of used spares lol

 

 

the journals on that cam you posted looked rough ..maybe the whole head starved a bit when oil pump gear went bad if it looks replaced

Edited by LooseLugNuts
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That's what I'm thinking - that the sprocket failure(s) probably did a lot of collateral damage to the engine.  So I'd agree that if your sprocket(s) go, do all that work.  If your car's not showing any sprocket wear issues, carry on.

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