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Trying to start a 09 451 after sitting 3 years. What am I missing?

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Hi guys, I used to be on here from 09-11 and loved this site, now I’m retrying to get this thing started after rotting away in a drive way since 2015.

 

Back story:  

 

Couldn’t  use smart due to expanding family. ABS light came on and the reluctor rings needed to go.  Didnt have the time then to fix, got new Van, and decided to store the car at my folks house.  Well..the cover never went on, and the car rotted in a driveway for 3 years.    I cleaned their garage and now the car is in there on blocks.  But before I do the rings, I have to start the car so...

 

Car condition : 

 

Lots of oxidation and corrosion. The coil pack bolts are no. Identifiable, gonna be tricky. 

Brakes were sized and required tow hook and jolting it for and aft to release. 

Bat was dead dead.   No nests, wires look good. Inside car is mint. Custom painted like I had it in the day.  

 

Trying to start:  

 

Tried 75A charger start function and jumping... nothing

 

Got new OEM Batt.  Had the E for a sec on dash then all normal.   Car shifts PRND no issues. 

 

Car engages start sequence 3 times, but will not light off.  Can hear unit on bottom left of car priming (  in ACC ).   

 

Added New fuel... nothing. 

 

Dropped fuel tank and unhooked filler. Siphoned all gas out.   Put I. Premium 5L. Fuel gauges showed correct.  Primed 4 times.  Again, nothing.  Start sequencing ( “ runn-runn-runn “) and done. 

 

 

My thoughts going forward and where you guys come in...:

 

Get clic tool and take off fuel line to injector rail, see if fuel squirts out?

 

check the fuse box aka SAM. 

 

I have heard to check fuse 10?

 

where do I find info on this fuel rally bypass mod and is that for 451?

 

would the SAM control unit ( by battery ) be suspect?

 

 

All that happened was the car didn’t get use.  I dropped it off and that was it. It was working perfectly.   What could it be. It’s become an obsession to get this going. 

 

Wife wants me to sell it for scrap but the car looks amazing still and other than the rings is a perfectly good car.  Not to mention the powder coated rims and the interior paint I had done to it. 

 

Yes 3500 that MB wants to change drive shafts on a 3500 dollar car is not happening but I like working or cars...

 

for now, let’s get her turning over. 

 

Thx. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Check compression..?

Maybe valve has stuck..?

Check grounding pins in and around engine. Main one from engine to frame.?

Reluctor rings are a 2 hour job and $20 or so......lol   buy from ebay in england...cheap as chips as we used to say!..lol

Crank sensor...check all pins for all and any connections.....3 years is plenty of time for them to turn green......just be careful of ECU capacitors discharging if you need to clean them, speaking from experience, cost me a ECU.....

I'll bet it's something simple like corrosion or poor ground...

Good luck.

 

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awesome. Thx for the feed back!  

 

How do you check compression on these and what is the range? 

 

Are the grounding pins just the connections the bolt to frame connections?

 

where is the ECU and what pins?  For cleaning pins, a little emery paper? Or wire dremel?

 

about these caps..are they in the unit?  

 

I only have the into to MTC manual and tube amp skills..lol

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needs fuel...compression and spark to run

 

 

fuel pressure should be easy to check...compression you can usually tell just by listening to the way it cranks

 

but based on what you said about the coil packs id be looking for spark first

 

 

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The grounding points at where a number of ground wires collect at, usually 4 plus on each. There is also a main ground wire or cable running from engine to frame or body that could corrode badly enough.


The ECU is engine computer, do not use anything that can carry voltage, use only tooth brush and sensor type cleaner, vinegar maybe on pins if green....the capacitors are inside and hold a charge and if you bridge the correct pins they can discharge and cook something internally. All I did was soak the pins in sensor cleaner and used a plastic brush  on them and in the foam I saw a lightening type flash, that was it....cooked!  Maybe it was static or I bent a pin without knowing it..?  BEWARE.!!!  Costly mistake.
As said above you need 3 things for a start.....condition....the spark is harder to find with all the electronics in vehicles today, unlike yesteryear......we might have had one or two wires to get the spark, now a days there are many computers dictating when, what and how an engine runs....it's just too complicated....for us old farts...lol

 

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Good stuff. I was at Princess auto and picked up a cool looking OBD2 reader that does starts and charges.  Should be interesting. 

 

Thx for the tip on the ECU.  Too bad you can’t get in to it and ground the Caps. In the Tube guitar amp world those Caps can kill people, so you always discharge to ground.  Then it’s dead and you can work.  

 

Just St to be clear, it’s the pins that plug into the back of the fuse box right.  Or on the fuse box SAM.  

 

Thx again.  Wish I could figure out posting pics from iPad on here.  

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On 2019-07-14 at 0:59 PM, Hotshot said:

awesome. Thx for the feed back!  

 

How do you check compression on these and what is the range? 

 

Are the grounding pins just the connections the bolt to frame connections?

 

where is the ECU and what pins?  For cleaning pins, a little emery paper? Or wire dremel?

 

about these caps..are they in the unit?  

 

I only have the into to MTC manual and tube amp skills..lol

 

 

Well I tried the SAM, all looks good, and I did get fuel to the injectors.  I’m thinking maybe I have a stuck piston.   Will trippy to hand then engine over. 

 

About the SAM.  My Batteries were dead in the key but didn’t think of pairings before I unplugged the SAM. 

 

Now on I have the Key display. I think I flashed the SAM in removing it. So now I have a dead and locked car, that can’t be towed and has no reg or insurance and MB is the only ones who  can re program the car..  

 

here is hoping the the other key will work.  

 

Ugh.  I honestly hate this car now and wish in 2009 I’d bought another civic...

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There must be someone in Toronto with a STAR machine, no, besides the dealership...?
I have one here but that doesn't do you much good down there....where are you exactly?  You need new fob batteries also so maybe good to get them first...?  Then charge car battery as the STAR demands a good 12.6volts or better......

PM me....I am house bound looking after two dogs after them getting nutted.....supper hyper Terriers.....but after they are healed, maybe?

 

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A 451 can be unlocked using the key in the driver's door.  The transmission park lock can also be defeated.  There is a tab to pull situated under the shifter housing.

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personally if it was my predicament id start with new fob keys

 

 

then if the immobilizer cant be turned off id pull out the $40 delphi tool and do the key learning procedure

 

 

but as i type this i notice its not in the 450 section and i dont know what the key procedure is a 451

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On 2019-07-14 at 0:59 PM, Hotshot said:

Thx guys.  Was on the phone and may have found a guy who does house calls with a STAR.   Was at MB and got to chat with a mech.  He didn’t think the SAM would drop the key, and thinks a re powering may clear it.  

also for 86$ MB sells engine servicing long bolts and drop the who cassette down. Why did I just find this out now... years later.   A must if you like working on cars imho

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2 minutes ago, LooseLugNuts said:

personally if it was my predicament id start with new fob keys

 

 

then if the immobilizer cant be turned off id pull out the $40 delphi tool and do the key learning procedure

 

 

but as i type this i notice its not in the 450 section and i dont know what the key procedure is a 451

 

 

Ya 451. What is a Delphi Tool?  

 

I did did get new batteries for the fobs. 

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I've only done keys for a 450, but the Star reads the vin of the vehicle and goes from there you do nothing unless it can't read the vin number for some reason.  I bought a bunch of the cheaper chinese fobs with blanks if I need to replace my old stock original ones....I have since found more expensive nice soft like the stock version but they aren't any where as cheap so to speak.  But they both program the same.  OR at least they did for me.

 

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1 hour ago, Hotshot said:

What is a Delphi Tool

 

delphi 150E

 

its a vci diagnostic tool you can use with "borrowed" software to do some diagnostics cheaply (usually cost under $50)

 

 

 

the star tool is obviously better and can access a lot more in a smart ....but very very expensive 

 

 

the delphi is great for keys ,checking codes in various modules and clearing airbag codes....but it requires some patience and computer knowledge (uses a keygen to unlock)

 

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32907852464.html?

 

 

 

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And She Stars !   

 

Sam unit.  Didn’t have one of the top plunges in all the way. Hence the solid key icon.   Fixed with a reset. Confirming SAM can be powered off and not lose key pairing. 

 

Engine.    Was told alternator was spinning. I looked at it again and it was seized. The belt was turning not the ALT.   Used wrench to manually turn it and break it lose. She started!   

 

Now on to pop the drive shafts out, do the rings, and sell this thing.  

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