Well......I broke it...!

[Willys 747]

I was driving my 89 year old mother back home to Ottawa this afternoon, somewhere it's been many times before.  Maybe it didn't want to drive on their pot holed roads for another time..?   So, it.......

 

Decided to puke out diesel fuel all out the back of the car as we drove down highway #7........it drenched the back of the car and road and covered everyone behind us....ooops, sorry...!

 

I pulled over and unloaded her and took a look under the hood so to speak, nothing...? No pools of fuel etc anywhere....strange...?   So turned on the ign.  OK THAT produced a reaction!    Fuel squirting wildly out of the high pressure pump body on the under side of it.....Hmmmm.....?

 

So realized a bit more than a simple bag of tools were going to solve....called CAA   Well....when I finally found a signal that is, 1/2 mile down the road or should I say up the road, then up an embankment, over a fence and then as far as i could climb up a tree !  I haven't climbed a tree in decades!  Now i know why!
At this second I am 9 1/2 hours in a trip to Ottawa and still sitting at home....We were 1 1/2 hours west of Ottawa when this happened on a long dead stretch of Highway #7.  The only car that stopped for us to offer any sort of help was get this a .......Red Smart Car!  The very nice young man really a 19 year old boy offered us all sorts of help but nothing useful, but he tried!  He has been driving his grand father's smart for 3 weeks now and loves it!

Any way...back to my issue now......a serious spray coming from under the body of the high pressure pump. Is this a typical issue for this pump and the reason for you rebuilding them? I have a kit here ready, that's tomorrow's job.....or I could swap out the good car's pump and then rebuild one for it...? But if I have to rebuild one any way why not for this broken car? Is it that difficult?   I don't think so, is it?

 

 

The whole rear end of the car is soaked in diesel now and smells just great!   First a good wash then some fixing is in order......just wondering what you guys think and suggest?  Why did this happen and possible other issues or thoughts...?

 

I'll keep the description of trying to get my mother into the tow truck for another day.....without any help from her that is...lets just say, I'm nowhere near as strong as I used to be  OR she has gained a significant amount of weight in the past few years or so! I used a step ladder to remove her....my back and neck just couldn't handle that again!

[Nigel 287]

Replacing the seals is not hard, getting the pump out is.  Here is a video that gives pretty decent instructions for replacing the seals.  I don’t know if you have enough meds and swear words to do it there.  I’ll call you in a bit.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=267&v=Krrij6jfimY

 

 

Nigel

[LooseLugNuts 557]

theres probably a thread here with tons of pictures

 

i remember seeing plenty of Tolsen posts and someone else here rebuilt their pump,...had to be here where i seen it because i dont read much anywhere else

[Willys 747]

Well thanks guys....I'm an hour into it, no rush, just got the entire engine and related areas washed clean of fuel, what a mess!

I already have the EGR bypass done so that'll make it a tad bit easier I think.

 

I'll be installing IZZY's emualtor into it this time and removing my piggy back perfectly clean EGR out of the way. Fingers crossed for no codes.

 

As for my mother.....she as it happens was the most injured of the bunch.....I must have scrapped her leg badly as I was lifting her into the tow truck.....her leg is black and blue...!  At 89 she bruises very easily....and also badly.  Ooops....sorry mom.

 

Letting everything sun bake while I watch any and all video's relating to this job while eating lunch....where did the time go..?

 

Thanks again for the link.

[Nigel 287]

12 minutes ago, Willys said:

Well thanks guys....I'm an hour into it,  ....where did the time go..?

 

Thanks again for the link.

 

You didn’t get out of bed till after 10.  

[Willys 747]

1 minute ago, Nigel said:

 

You didn’t get out of bed till after 10.  

Shhhhh..........lol...!

And the meds are making me very tired.....but necessary when working at knee levels......oh to be 20 again!

I have watched a few videos so far and none are showing that grub screw you are telling me of...?   I guess that'll be the surprise at the end...lol.

 

They say something about 24 Nm torque settings for the cap bolts.....I tried to convert it into inch pounds.....almost no existant....unless I am doing something wrong..?

[Nigel 287]

212 in/lbs

I never saw it on any video either.  At about 2:52 on the video you will see a groove in the driveshaft between the o rings.  Iirc that is where the ball rides with the spring behind and the screw pushing the spring.  Underneath one of the elements you should find a screw lining up with the groove.  When you get that far let me know I can come over.  

 

Is is the pump off yet or are you sitting around watching YouTube?

 

Nigel

Edited August 14, 2019 by Nigel

[Willys 747]

OK took my time cleaning and making sure it's perfectly ready to rebuild now......and found out my rebuild kit is missing the two larger "O" rings that go on the centre shaft.........SOB...!    So now calling MB to see if they have the complete kit or those two gaskets.....augh!!!!!

 

[Nigel 287]

Let me see if I can find one of my kits?

[tolsen 630]

It is o-ring seals on short pup pipes between pump body and head that fail. Mine suffered this problem more than a decade ago.  Happened in Arnisdale where the father of James Bond Ian Fleming used to live. Arnisdale is one of the remotest parts of UK. Gavin Maxwell also lived there supping whisky and writing the book rings of bright water. 

[Willys 747]

That is where I expected the leak to be, but it was coming directly from underneath the pump spraying downward towards the road. So the top of the engine didn't get wet at all compared to the underneath areas.  One of the seals on one of the caps looks a bit worn or stressed, so I assumed that is where it was leaking from....?   
But after dismantling it and seeing the first "O" ring on the centre assembly weaker than I would like or expect it to be. I am now worried about reinstalling it using that "O ring.   I am trying to locate someone near me that works on pumps to see if they have something that fits in their inventory...?   I am also starting the internet search for this bosch pump.....but it has many numbers to search...?  Hopefully I can get the good car's pump to work for now and then rebuild this pump to like new specs and install it in the car I'm rebuilding better than new....lol.   IMHO.

 

So if you know where to source the internals for this pump please speak up.

My only worry was my mother at her age being in any stressful situation far away from any medical help if she had required it.    

 

[BWM 87]

I get most of my seals and O rings from a local hydraulic shop.

They should have a vast array of O rings in stock.

Take the shafts and O rings with you so they can measure them correctly.

A cple examples of why I go there instead of OEM parts.

1 Massey hydraulic pump has a seal on the input shaft 31mm of x 17mm id x 7mm thick, dealer wanted $69.95 plus shipping charges and tax and a week to get, bought 2 from shop and got change back from 5 bucks and that included tax next day p/u.

 

2 EZGO golf cart crankshaft seals from a golf cart place they wanted 80 something in stock plus shipping.

My guy got em in next day was 10 n change.

 

They have a shelving unit 5' tall x 10' full of 6x6" drawers with nothing but O rings just walk in and they match me up, never waited yet for one.

 

What I seen in the video all but the ones with the jutted out ones would be on his shelf.

 

I was told by a diesel injection pump rebuilder on a tractor forum about using a hydraulic shop for seals and O rings as that's were he sources his from for antique tractors injection pump rebuilds.

[Willys 747]

OK, just ended chat with the company who makes the seal kits
Their kit number for this pump is:  0445 010 025
The company is X8R 

I spoke with the tech person and asked if I could get away with not replacing the steel washers or spacers and just use old ones and all new rubber "O" rings and they said yes for a quick fix until a complete kit can get to me in 16-20 business days.....I want it now...lol.  I am planning on a drive into town to local hydraulic shop to see if they can supply the two missing larger "O" rings then order this complete kit for the two pumps i have here. Both will be completely rebuilt before being put back into service again......don't want to risk this happening again.
The other question I have is.....there are two hoses that leave the top of the pump that also use rubber "O" rings and a simple white gasket, which on my pumps looks well distorted. So i will replace those also before any issues arise.......but again where to source those flat gaskets from? Seeing as the dealership is saying it doesn't supply rebuild kits of any type, I wonder if these gaskets are even available? I'll call when they open. I'll let you know when i find an answer.

 

[LooseLugNuts 557]

my dad had an o ring kit that was comprised of o ring materials and some special glue for making custom rings on the fly ..i think it was for emergency use for on off-site repairs...... .they might still be available somewhere 

[tolsen 630]

5 hours ago, LooseLugNuts said:

my dad had an o ring kit that was comprised of o ring materials and some special glue for making custom rings on the fly ..i think it was for emergency use for on off-site repairs...... .they might still be available somewhere 

I saw lots of those universal o-ring kits on Transocean oil rigs.  Very handy in emergency situations when the proper o-rings are not available.

You just cut the rubber at 45 degrees and stick the two ends together with superglue and pray it will hold.

 

Now doubt Transocean used copious amounts of those DIY o-rings in the blowout preventer of the Deepwater Horizon.

[Willys 747]

OK, it's ALIVE....!


Nope, not with the same pump...as expected the incomplete rebuild kit wasn't good enough for whatever reason..?  Trying to match "O" rings using a student at the local seal place was a bust!   WHY would any respectable business allow a student to size and suggest O rings for customer's to use, is beyond me!   Sure for 2 rings she, yes ....she....said just donate $2 to the Salvation Army and all's well should have been a red flag along with the fact I almost had to do the choosing of which ring was correct!  There were so many choices as to materials sizes, etc etc.....in the end I simply gave up seeing as if you do not know beforehand what materials accept what it's a crap shoot!  So lets just say I'll be ordering the correct complete kit today and get 2...! 
What I did use in the end was the known good pump from my summer car and it fired right up. No issue what so ever. The so called rebuilt pump simply didn't build up the pressure required I expect and didn't get even a cough!  Lets just say I can change a pump now in less than 30 minutes easy! 

 

[BWM 87]

Like I said lots of O rings to be gotten there.

To bad they have a counter person who doesn't know the products they sell.

The youngest person working at the shop I go to is about 45 and she knows more than their rebuilders, if she doesn't know the answer she will find one while you're there.

As to type of O ring to use IMO if it will handle hydraulic oil it'll handle diesel fuel fine.