Sydney

exhaust manifold removal

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Posted (edited) · Report post

This is a continuation from my other post.

My 05 cabrio has an oil leak at the return pipe from the turbo. 

I knew when I started into this that it was not going to be an easy fix. The only thing I was able to remove was the 2 banjo bolts on the oil feed line. Everything else is so rusted, you can't even tell what is a bolt, nut or etorx. 

Also nothing left of the exhaust manifold studs or bolts.

The manifold is also badly cracked.

So here is my plan... I'm not rich, but I want to replace this as a complete unit. I know there are Chinese replacements out there. I plan on just cutting off the old manifold with a grinder and some cut off disks, in hope of finding enough of the exhaust studs to somehow remove them (or be able to mig on some nuts to remove them)

What's everyone's thoughts?

I also have a complete spare engine if my plan goes down the toilet.

Edited by Sydney
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after cutting them off heat and cool whats left of the stud a few times and then weld a nut onto them and spin them out

 

 

then use new bolts on the new parts

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also my experience removing rotten manifolds is that taking a chisel and giving a good sideways smack to the rotten bolt heads helps a ton in removal ...the bolt heads tend to seize to the manifold its rarely seized at the threads in the head

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I have one of those turbo set ups you are speaking of, waiting to be mated up with new rebuilt engine when ever that is finished....taking a very long time to get going.....another long story I expect.
From what i can see the new turbo unit seems very good, all brand new, new manifolds as well.  Stickman007 also has one and he is running his without issue so far as i know.  It was priced very well also....I'd almost say cheap! It also appeared from the other side of the planet relatively quickly!  Again I want everything like new if at all possible when this car finally sees the road again.

As for the manifold, it can be welded but it will always be weaker right next to the repairing weld. I have welded many manifolds and as long as they are gusseted well, they can last a long time. BUT, if they depend on the structure to hold the weight of the entire manifold there is a good chance it'll simply break again from vibrations.  Also depends upon your welding skills of course. and the equipment you are using.

 

 

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So I made it this far. A lot of curse words, directed to the car and who ever designed it.   Lol.

I had to cut the manifold off and remove what was left of the manifold, turbo & egr valve as one complete unit. (on the plus side, the egr valve is surprisingly clean)

Now I just have to work at removing what's left of the exhaust manifold and hopefully getting the studs out.

 

IMG_20190929_172550.jpg

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You have cut manifold in two?  With a grinder I presume. 

 

Not what I call smart, actually the most unSmart move I’ve ever seen. 

 

Use oxy acetylene heat to release seized nuts and bolts. Works each time. 

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Hmmm.....desperation at it's finest I expect!...lol...Typical crack on the manifold which could be welded back up, but no guarantee's  lol...best to weld while firmly attached to head also to help stop any warpage...  I agree with tolson, high heat concetrated for a short time to heat just items you wish to remove, propane isn't ideal for this. But I expect you already know these things. For the amount of aggravation you are going to have trying to reuse this item I'd be buying that new knock-off turbo unit for sure. For the price it was a good deal.....Unless you have a good working unit off of another parts car.  good luck...I'd be going after tat fuel pump while it's this easy to get out, rebuild it and say goodbye to it stopping you dead like mine did.....it's a simple job really but make sure you buy a good seal kit that has the larger "O" rings in it....the really cheap kits i bought originally didn't come with these, the more expensive kits did. They were still relatively inexpensive. Just as a future thought is all.  OR have a good rebuilt spare sitting on shelf ready.  I hate sitting on side of road dead in the water....embarrassing for sure!

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Willys,  can you send me the link for the new turbo/manifold you purchased?     thanks

Edited by Sydney
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5 hours ago, tolsen said:

You have cut manifold in two?  With a grinder I presume. 

 

Not what I call smart, actually the most unSmart move I’ve ever seen. 

 

Use oxy acetylene heat to release seized nuts and bolts. Works each time. 

if you zoom in on the picture,  you will see that out of the 7 nuts there is only one that i would have any chance of getting a socket on.

also,  why waste all my time and effort trying to remove a cracked manifold in one piece,  just to throw it in the trash anyway   (im going to replace it with a new complete unit)

now with everything safely out of the way,  i have easy access to work on removing the studs.

i think it was actually a pretty smart move...

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This is the link I used to buy my turbo from BUT, they have changed their item picture to not include the last section of the manifold that tags onto the manifold by a long bracket......both myself and stickman007 bought ours when this piece was included in their description and they were forced to send it afterwards, which they did without issue.  They are still the cheapest but it is missing that last section of the new manifold.....search the threads on turbo replacent threads and you'll see us discussing this issue and pictures of what they sent and resent.

Here's the link to the turbo as they sell it now......changed.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32886566492.html?&srcSns=sns_More&tid=white_backgroup_101&mb=yY2QGeObA4qJB7e&tt=sns_none&aff_platform=default&cpt=1569857365234&sk=cdC9BsHK&aff_trace_key=c76a66d6507240098896e8c2bf3c0167-1569857365234-09555-cdC9BsHK&businessType=ProductDetail&platform=AE&terminal_id=b4c2b7e6ddde44fb94ff066651cacd90

 

Sorry.

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19 minutes ago, Willys said:

This is the link I used to buy my turbo from BUT, they have changed their item picture to not include the last section of the manifold that tags onto the manifold by a long bracket......both myself and stickman007 bought ours when this piece was included in their description and they were forced to send it afterwards, which they did without issue.  They are still the cheapest but it is missing that last section of the new manifold.....search the threads on turbo replacent threads and you'll see us discussing this issue and pictures of what they sent and resent.

Here's the link to the turbo as they sell it now......changed.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32886566492.html?&srcSns=sns_More&tid=white_backgroup_101&mb=yY2QGeObA4qJB7e&tt=sns_none&aff_platform=default&cpt=1569857365234&sk=cdC9BsHK&aff_trace_key=c76a66d6507240098896e8c2bf3c0167-1569857365234-09555-cdC9BsHK&businessType=ProductDetail&platform=AE&terminal_id=b4c2b7e6ddde44fb94ff066651cacd90

 

Sorry.

ok thanks.  i assume i can still buy that tail section from them,  just as an extra part.

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Just as a side note, ask about a gasket between the two parts, I'm not sure I got one and will check when the time gets closer if I need to buy it.....I'm not worried about that little issue as I'm sure I could buy it also from either deraler or these guys....their shipping was fast also!

 

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1 hour ago, Willys said:

Just as a side note, ask about a gasket between the two parts, I'm not sure I got one and will check when the time gets closer if I need to buy it.....I'm not worried about that little issue as I'm sure I could buy it also from either deraler or these guys....their shipping was fast also!

 

did you take your old one apart?   i tried to separate mine into the individual pieces,  no luck.  

i was able to remove the EGR valve and the stainless coolant pipe.   (even though i'm not planning on using them).   i'm going to delete the complete EGR system.   i will hold onto the valve in case of an emulator failure, i can just plug it back in.

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There is no gasket between exhaust manifold and exhaust extension piece. 

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No I haven't touched it yet as I have a completely new set up ready to bolt onto rebuilt engine when ever that shows up. 

I didn't know there wasn't a gasket thanks Tolson....good to know.....is it just a machined flat surface against similar or do you add a bit of high heat sealant similar to muffler paste?  I haven't gotten to this yet. I need to remember how the whole sub frame came apart so I can put it back together before taxing my grey matter on the next stage...lol....sub frame engine, then stuff it all back together...lol. Then add accessories such as turbo etc etc.

 

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Yes, flat machined mating surfaces. No high temperature sealant as far as I know. No sealant or gasket is shown in the parts system and I saw no trace of sealant when I took two manifolds apart. 

Of course there is a seal between manifold and cylinder head. This is made out of stainless steel and can normally be reused. 

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6 minutes ago, tolsen said:

Yes, flat machined mating surfaces. No high temperature sealant as far as I know. No sealant or gasket is shown in the parts system and I saw no trace of sealant when I took two manifolds apart. 

Of course there is a seal between manifold and cylinder head. This is made out of stainless steel and can normally be reused. 

Thanks, but I expect any sealant would have burned off if on an original set up by now if there was any in the beginning...?   It's straight out through the exhaust anyway with almost zero back pressure now any way......so no real fear of it leaking or blasting past any sealant..?

 

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So I made a little progress. I have ground of the nuts (or what was left of them). Now I have to try to get what's left of this manifold off the studs. Then get the studs out. I wish I had acetylene gear.

IMG_20191002_203002.jpg

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Hopefully they all come out after welding a good nut over those studs. I expect they will as you'll have far more material to weld to. Then if the worst does happen you can grind snapped stud flush and punch and drill for thread cleaning......it's only time and that is free when retired......you are retired aren't you.....lol  Once you have a good nut welded onto stud I'd give it a good whack to loosen it while it's got heat in it, inside the aluminium  but not too hard to crack block...augh!!!!
Just a note, I'd be protecting that CV boot from all hot chips, welding splatter etc etc etc.....just saying, I'm sure you are.    This reminds me of working on my old rusted out Jeeps way way back in the day.....I hate rust now....!!!  That is why I over kill everything I touch to help stop it from biting me again. 
Good luck....

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15 hours ago, Sydney said:

I wish I had acetylene gear

 

a little handheld mapp torch is great for little jobs like this...you should pick one up

 

i keep one in my car for occasional use on jobs when my acetylene setup isnt available....youd be amazed how much they can help in a pinch

 

 

 

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Here is a video on the set up of a MAPP torch.  The temperatures in a map torch can get up to 5300 degrees Fahrenheit.

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