Willys

Engine rebuild some parts required.

73 posts in this topic

OK guys and gals.....
I have finally had my engine inspected and a verdict given.  He gave me 3 options as usual...I went with the most work possible...lol.
I want new pistons, rings, bearings, seals, lifters, rockers, valve guides and a complete engine gasket set. All best quality i can find.

As I said worst comes to worst I can simply freshen up the valves by lapping, clean top carbon ridge (which is very little), new gaskets, seals and run it. It didn't need to be rebuilt. I wanted to replace oil chain and timing chain just because so I thought bugger it, lets look at the entire engine while it's out. I am a firm believer if you want something to last, fix it right now, not wait for it to grenade next month or two. 
So any and all help is greatly appreciated, thank you ahead of time.
I already have these new parts ready to install.....new timing and oil chains and sprockets, new oil pan with drain plug, new starter, new alt, new turbo, rebuilt fuel pump, new glow plugs, I will buy new nozzles, new water pump and thermostat, new inter cooler,emulator, EGR complete removal/bypass. Sub frame sand blasted and painted, new springs, brakes,engine mounts, Any old parts used will be sand blasted and repainted.  I was thinking of cleaning and detailing block but after seeing it again, it's perfectly clean now, like new.

IF anyone can suggest where to buy any of these parts besides the dealership I would be eternally grateful. I'll make a list and if you know where to locate each item or all just copy list and fill out where and re-post list if you would be so kind.  I will be researching this as best I can as fast as I can.....Thanks again for any help.

 

Complete engine gasket set:

One size over pistons and rings.
Stock new rings.
Lifters.

Rockers.

Valve seals.

All bearings stock size.

All seals required.

Clutch release or throw out bearing.

Possibly a new rear sway bar or good old used one....mine is bent.

Rear hand brake cables.

 

Technical question he asked.....piston to cylinder clearance measurement as he couldn't find anything about this engine in the short time he looked. Or any other non-typical measurement that he may need to know different from normal diesel engines.  Thanks.

 

He also asked if I could buy better quality items not cheap Chinese crap as he put it...lol.

 

I will add to this list if I think of anything I missed.   Hmmmm....kitchen sink maybe...lol

 

I will try and take pictures of the re-assembly , I really will, but once I start going at it I usually forget.....I hope to do it this time.

 

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Thats sounds like a lot of parts lol

 

you can find some good ones on germanparts.ca:

 

- hand brake cable https://germanparts.ca/parts/00186MS

- clutch realease system https://germanparts.ca/parts/10233MS

 

They also have intake manifold and turbo gaskets:

 

https://germanparts.ca/parts/00711MS

https://germanparts.ca/parts/10241MS

 

 

Good luck with the rebuid and keep us posted!

 

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OK, all parts finally sourced and ordered for the engine re-bore and rebuild, minus a few seals.......sitting down now recouping!

Valve seals, crank seals and maybe the intake weird shaped seals are still on the list.   

I have found a good used sway bar I think also...

and the rear right engine mount, the left and centre were easy to locate.

 

The only place I could find over sized pistons was from Germany  SW-Smart  Very helpful guy there but some ebay users ruined it for the rest of us by not paying for orders so they refuse now to sell on ebay to North America, which makes purchasing anything from them that much harder.

 

So now the waiting game starts again......augh...fingers crossed all goes well.

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Just got notification parts shipped thursday.....now the real nail biting starts.....lol

Again so far excellent service from this company.

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OK, I am in need of help sourcing crank seals...please....

I have the number off seals...

Front timing seal of crank is....A 166 997 02 46

The rear main crank seal is....A 160 997 01 46

 

For some reason I can't locate these anywhere ....if I find the numbered seal they do not say it fits the Smart....just a MB car..of some series....???   Does MB classify a smart as a series designation...?   I know these seal should fit many vehicles but can't definately say they will fit the smart....augh!

Thanks....

 

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Measure crank for inside dia - outside diameter - then the thickness of the seal in mm.

A 166 997 02 46 = 40 - 62 - 8 which is your seal size

Back to the hydraulic shop and they can order to fit if they can read their books.

 

If not go into a seal mfg sit most have cross over specs to get a replacement part.

 

A google search got me this for A 166 997 02 46  

http://www.omeda-enterprise.com/en/Part/987/1669970246.html

 

And this for A 160 997 01 46  

http://www.omeda-enterprise.com/en/Part/259/1609970246.html

 

And yes most places would list parts as MB as that's the company a Smart is just a model maid by them.

 

Think Ford mustang 5L parts are the same as F150 5L parts.

 

Even though the smart motor is only used in them they are still a MB product to the mfgs.

 

If you scroll down either of the 2 links they actually list this seal for the Smart.

It looks like they used the same seals in all of the diesel and gas engines.

Edited by BWM
Corrected spelling

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I have been looking at seal pics and been seeing that white insert and thinking it was some sort of part of the seal...which was throwing me off the seals I had seen...lol......now I think it's a retainer to protect the seal in shipment etc etc....which means I have been looking at the correct seals all along...lol. DOH....!    Is that what that white thing in the centre of that seal is?  I hope so...lol.

 

Monday I was heading into town to go to Toronto seal and bearing and let them have at them if someone hadn't of replied....

 

Thanks

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Yes the white thing is a protector from crush and helps to keep seal in shape but I'm assuming it's purpose.

Have only ever got one seal that had one included.

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I have bought hundreds of seals in my life time and never seen a retainer such as this yet.....lol

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I think you will find you can source these seals rather cheap from the MB dealer. 

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I was under the impression seeing as we can't get internal engine parts then maybe seal were also in that category..?   So I didn't even consider them....augh.....thanks!

 

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OK, amazingly the parts from Germany have been delivered to me today but they missed the valve guides, so I have sent message and also ordered more stuff.....lol.   IF they can get things to me that fast I'm OK with it.!!!
Also I have ordered all internal and any external seals/gaskets required to complete rebuild from dealership.   Not a bad cost either!   I again was surprised to say the least and they too will get it all in 2-3 days!  Hmmmm....   The parts guy was super helpful also, which deffinately surprised me. He spent the time to find all parts and checked to get latest numbers etc and told me exactly what they could get and what they couldn't. No hard metal internal parts like pistons etc from dealership. He was very surprised what he could get even.   So hopefully in a week or two I'll have all the needed parts to rebuild this massive power plant....lol.

 

Now to get the machinist fired up.......but he's seriously busy at the moment with other issues, and I am really not in any rush so to speak. I thought it would have taken a month or more to get anything across the pond especially the things I wanted.

 

So fingers crossed....

 

 

One thing I am after is the piston to bore clearances for this engine, if it's different from any other engine so to speak.   Anyone know this measurement...?   Anyone...?      Thanks in advance.....Tolson, Mender, Who else has rebuilt one themselves...?

 

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Hmmm......MB dealship finally called to say they had my seals etc etc that I ordered last week.....great news. BUT went down to get them and one seal was incorrect out of the bunch so has been reordered and I wait once again. Not a big deal, still waiting for valve guides also still searching for any concrete measurement for piston to wall clearances, seems that is a well kept secret.   Just like the disassembly procedure of the clutch housing . BUT....I met a MB shop mechanic who does all their SMART repairs yesterday after fighting with parts guy who tried to insist I was reading diagram wrong on what seal went where etc etc. This guy has had many Smarts and has many spare new parts in his possession that after him selling off all his diesels he has no need for.....guess who is buying all i can at greatly reduced prices with any luck. Plus he lives close to me!   What's with Smart owners who seem to like to stay hidden from the rest of the world and community...? Most vehicles have strong followers all wanting to help one and other  and socialize etc etc.....Smarts are not like this strangely enough...Hmmm...?  Is it embarrassment...?  lol.   Anyway, after speaking with him I remembered the clutch problem and wanting to disassemble it to simply take a peek.  He says sure but go at your own risk, but it can be done. He spent almost 20 minutes with me in total away from his job explaining all about how to do this surgery.  Plus I have his info etc to go shopping at his house...lol.  Maybe this time I will actually take pics of how it comes apart and break my bad habit of taking everything apart before turning camera on!   AUGH!  Time to turn heat on in garage also....Burrrrrrr........!   Fingers crossed........

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Clutch is difficult to reassemble and there is no info regarding how deep to fit clutch assembly into flywheel. There are also difficulties setting to zero the cam mechanism that compensates for clutch wear. 

Try if you are brave enough but beware the outcome may not turn out as you hope for. 

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21 minutes ago, tolsen said:

Clutch is difficult to reassemble and there is no info regarding how deep to fit clutch assembly into flywheel. There are also difficulties setting to zero the cam mechanism that compensates for clutch wear. 

Try if you are brave enough but beware the outcome may not turn out as you hope for. 

I have been told the hardest part is reinstallation of that little ring that holds everything together and it's location etc etc. I watched a video of a SACHs clutch mechanism which showed that adjustment mechanism you're speaking of and how it works. I was also told to measure everything before touching it to get that measurement of hieght of the clutch fingers as so you have some idea of where to start your calculations for setting up new clutch plate. Also to check for flatness of pressure plate as they also get deformed which results in a useless clutch as a whole to rebuild as there is no way to machine it flat without destroying the measurements required...?  Yes i know this may be a bad thing to try and look at but the alternative is not knowing and always wondering by simply chucking it away and simply buying a new clutch pack. Better to know why than to not understand why you are spending $700-$1,100 for a new clutch.  IMHO.   I asked the dealership yesterday how much from them...$1,100 plus taxes....so the better part of $1500...!!!!!    Just for a new clutch disc maybe....augh!  No wonder people scrap these cars after taking them to a dealership for work required!   Absolutely insanely priced....damn!  Then add labor costs on top of that number.....It would be cheaper to buy another car...

No wonder they never lasted like they should have. They get fantastic economy and are fun to drive. They should have lasted the test of time but they didn't and I bet this is the reason why!

 

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Understood. 

Here is my method for disassembling clutch from flywheel. 

 

1) Need concrete floor and 1/2” plywood sheet. 

2) Need thick gloves. 

3) Need determination and strength. 

4) Grip flywheel such that your fingers won’t get trapped and bang forcefully onto plywood sheet until clutch assembly has popped out. 

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OK, new thought or question that just occurred to me.....?????
Oil....what oil does one use for the running in of said new engine?  Seeing as the usual oil of choice for our engines is a full synthetic variety....?  I have always been under the impression that one doesn't use any synthetic oils for this procedure...under any circumstances....?

I am no where near this stage yet, it's just something that popped into my dome of emptiness...lol.

I have all my machining now done and I'm in the last stages of cleaning all internal pieces ready to be re-installed into fresh new block and head.

I am wanting to take pictures of the many stages this time...but I'm sure I'll get into it and then forget...but I'll try and do it so we can have a stage by stage illustration of how it goes back together.  Pics won't be of professional quality I will add. lol

I am now waiting upon delivery of case goo sealant as my tube of said goo was compromised.

 

Plus I have ordered the german shop manual just to see what it shows if anything related to rebuilding the engine.  This information is probably a national secret as all things Smart seem to be....!  I do have a complete list of all the torgue specs so I am somewhat prepared.......tic ...tic....augh!!!

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On 1/29/2020 at 9:45 AM, Willys said:

https://www.smart-ersatzteile.com/epages/61935289.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61935289/Categories/Smart_450

 

Place where many of my engine parts came from....excellent people and prices even after shipping.....imho.   Fast also.

 

this seems like a great site.  is it used parts or new.   i'm going to have to use google translate.   lol

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2 minutes ago, Sydney said:

this seems like a great site.  is it used parts or new.   i'm going to have to use google translate.   lol

Both used and brand new, they offer both in some cases. Top right there is a translator I think or google did it for me...?  They can get anything I need except one item brand new and that was the hand brake mechanism, the coil spring and ratchet bar that drops through floor, mine is rusted and for the money and ease I was going to just buy a new one, but they only offered a good used one. I will sandblast mine and paint.
I also bought all new same size bearings seeing as my bearing were almost perfect, but again, given the chance of being able to buy new I went with new, same for rockers, lifters, valves, valve guides(my guides were the only real thing that showed too much wear!) I had seats cut not replaced. I also went with the largest piston size they had to make sure I got all waves out of the bores. It was a good thing also because I have one spot at the top that I can see a very slight mark compared to the rest of the bore, not low enough to make any difference. I couldn't find pistons and rings anywhere else that weren't crap china made, these are Italian piston and rings. Like i said, I am not doing this again so i bought everything that could wear, in the end it wasn't that bad cost wise. Also they sell a clutch for Peanuts and a good one, it was maybe 1/3 of the cost of the cheapest I could buy it here for. Same for the clutch fork and bearing. They do sell already machined engines if you didn't want to do the work, but I wanted to know exactly what was done and to what degree of workmanship, I trust my machinist 100%. He's built at least 30 engines for me or done the machining that is. Bike engines that is not smarts, only 1 smart....lol.  PM me if you need more info etc.

 

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Just received a nice new shop manual for the Smart 450 thanks to MW-SMART......took a week to get it here, excellent..imho.
Now, which will be easier, learn German or start translating it....lol.     I did take a year of German way way back in high school to get rid of french and found it far easier to learn. In that time I could almost speak enough to carry on a simple conversation. I took many years of french and only know a few choice words even now...lol.
I think there is an app for your phone that you can hold it over the page and it'll translate it for you...? On the search now.....

This manual besides being in German is a very full and useful book from what I can tell by the pictures and wiring diagrams, excellent.   Why one isn't already in English I don't know?  Oh well, just more time well spent....lol

 

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16 minutes ago, Willys said:

Just received a nice new shop manual for the Smart 450 thanks to MW-SMART......took a week to get it here, excellent..imho.
Now, which will be easier, learn German or start translating it....lol.     I did take a year of German way way back in high school to get rid of french and found it far easier to learn. In that time I could almost speak enough to carry on a simple conversation. I took many years of french and only know a few choice words even now...lol.
I think there is an app for your phone that you can hold it over the page and it'll translate it for you...? On the search now.....

This manual besides being in German is a very full and useful book from what I can tell by the pictures and wiring diagrams, excellent.   Why one isn't already in English I don't know?  Oh well, just more time well spent....lol

 

 

I've used Google Translate a number of times, it's pretty good at yeilding usable translations; every now and then you'll get something that, while probably literally accurate, is almost certainly not what the original authors intended.

Edited by gtjunk

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I've been playing with it but I wish I could find a way to do whole paragraphs not just a line or two at a time........I even typed in a sentence and that was great, but at one finger or two at a time, it'll take me until next winter just to translate it...lol. There has to be a program that'll do a page at a time well enough to be able to get the main idea of what is being said.    Google has a section or tab that'll translate it then tell you verbally what has been translated....but only a sentence or two at a time.

You need to take a picture of it, size it, then send it  then ok it then it spits it out......that is why I think there must be a better way I just have no idea where or what that is.

My wife's company uses deepl.com....but again....so far only  short distances not full pages so far and then it's the getting the pictures over to the program etc.

 

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OK, I have figured it out, now just need to make up a gig to keep camera a specific distance from page to allow camera to stay focused without jumping around........amazing  to be able to do this...damn!   And for free...lol.
It will take far longer to use this manual over an english version but it's far better than nothing!!!!
Hmmm....time to get the coat hangers out and start bending up a gig.....

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