2005 Glow plug light doesn’t come on when keys turned on

[StalveyKyle 0]

So I purchased a 2005 CDI fortwo a few weeks ago. I live in Florida and it’s 60 degrees this morning car won’t start. When I first turn the key over I notice the glow plug light doesn’t come on for more than 1 or 2 seconds then goes off. Every video I have seen it comes on and stays on for a bit until the glow plugs are heated up then they start it. Haven’t really had any issues until this morning. Battery is brand new been trying to start it for about 30 minutes now. Any ideas? Thank you. 

[Nigel 287]

Glow plug light won’t stay on until it is much cooler.  Can you hear the electric fuel pump when you first turn the key on?  It should run for a few seconds.  If not, do a search hear for adding a fuel pump relay or ask and we will help you find the appropriate posts.  That is a common issue.

By the way welcome to the club.

 

Nigel

[Willys 747]

Welcome to the site you have come to the right place for all CDI Smart knowledge....great people here always willing to lend a hand.

[Leadwing 565]

As mentioned above, Listening for the sound of a fuel pump will determine whether or not that is working.  I have two diesel smarts, and neither of them have glow plug lights that stay on for more than a second or so in weather above 40F.

 

Please keep us updated on your starting issue    to the club

 

[StalveyKyle 0]

Thank you guys for responding. I do believe it is in fact the fuel pump. Some how I got lucky and it finally started drive to work and it wouldn’t start again. Dropping the tank is a lot of work so I’m going to cut through the passenger floor under the seat and replace that way. I will let you know if it’s successful lol. 

[Willys 747]

27 minutes ago, StalveyKyle said:

Thank you guys for responding. I do believe it is in fact the fuel pump. Some how I got lucky and it finally started drive to work and it wouldn’t start again. Dropping the tank is a lot of work so I’m going to cut through the passenger floor under the seat and replace that way. I will let you know if it’s successful lol. 

NO....!!!!!!!

Research how to fix it as it's probably an electrical issue not mechanical......spend some time reading before cutting a hole. This car is prone to grounding faults everywhere......there are many many of these grounding pins all around the car. You will find after taking them apart and cleaning them and using dilectric grease most of your issues may go away!  Plus there is a bypass fix for the power to the pump fix here somewhere if you search for it, another common issue...
Just saying.....it's not like other cars this little bugger...most issues are electrical.

 

Just curious, seeing where you live, could this car have ever been under water as in a flooded area, that would cause all sorts of electrical issues due to salt sea water.  Just a thought?

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Willys

[StalveyKyle 0]

Lol I appreciate it!! That was a thought thrown out after seeing how hard it was to remove the tank. I just don’t even really know where to begin with the car. It’s my first diesel and then on top of that it’s a tiny little car with everything jam packed. I will make cutting in to it my last resort. Is there a certain fuse for the fuel pump? I don’t remember seeing it in the book. Left the car at work because I couldn’t get it started. 

[Nigel 287]

Here is one of the last posts on this subject with good pictures.  You are likely to see burned pins on the sam connector.  Put relays on the headlights at the same time and save yourself future grief. 
 

http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?/topic/31695-time-to-sell-for-parts/#comment-356781

 

Nigel

[Nigel 287]

Also when mine failed the first time I was able to wiggle the sam (fuse box) and the car started to get it home.  I cleaned the terminal the best I could and cut the fuel pump wiring a few inches from the connector.  The wire from the sam is the trigger for the relay and the other end is the output going to the pump.  With our winter climate I avoid any outside splices  I can.  FYI smart142 is our local guru and usually his advice is spot on.

 

Nigel

[StalveyKyle 0]

Wow see that’s why I came to the forum. I’m going to look at it again in the morning when I get to work. Luckily here in Florida the winter isn’t bad at all. Our rainy season is what’s rough. So outside splicing is not good. 

[Willys 747]

As I asked above, is there any chance it could have been submerged in any way? Seeing as this car is so electrically sensitive.....look for salt water damages, rusting , green corrosion....  You will find it in any and all connections....imho.  
Again research everything you can before acting as if you would on any other make of vehicle....I had to also. I hate electronics but they are workable with help from this site. Many members here have owned these cars since they came onto the market way way back when dinasaurs roamed the earth...lol

As Nigel says, the fuse block called the SAM has definate issues which are repairable with some care and patience. 
Good luck and keep asking questions....someone will offer help for sure.

[BWM 87]

X100 clean and clean your grounds pay extra attn to all in the engine bay.

I also added a ground wire from the engine block to the battery.

There is a braided cable that acts as a ground from the block goes under and hooks to the swing arm IIRC that can cause lots of gremlins electrically.

[StalveyKyle 0]

So I pulled the Sam out and noticed there is one connector that is melted. How do I go about bypassing this connection or repairing the melted pin. 

[Nigel 287]

This would be the best repair.   You could cut the wire that goes to the burnt pin to the fuel pump and supply fused and switched power but Alex explains why he doesn’t like that approach.  
 

 

http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?/topic/25663-sam-woes-and-how-to-cure-them/#comment-299934

 

 

Nigel

[StalveyKyle 0]

So I bypassed the burnt connection by using a special little adapter got it all hooked up but to do so I completely disconnected the SAM and now my key lost its programming. How in the world do I get that Linked back up. 

[StalveyKyle 0]

This is the connection after I bypassed it. 

[Willys 747]

Again I repeat, you can't simply attack this electronic time bomb as you would any other normal vehicle....it doesn't work....every electronic pin is connected to all the rest to the tiniest detail......IF you insist on doing so you must pull power separately from the battery and installing a pony breaker or fuse pannel and feeding things directly from it.....do not imho try and steal voltage etc from another circuit as that circuit can feel the drop and that feeling will upset the computer as you may have found out!  Another question, did you disconnect the battery before playing with the SAM...?   I certainly hope so as again this car is so sensitive to electronic spikes and shorts you will be buying new computers like I had to. One flash cooked my unhooked ECU while cleaning it's pins of green corrosion!   Then you will require someone with a STAR diagnostic scanner tool to reset and reteach the new pieces to be able to communicate with the other computers in the car. Again ask me how I know. I made up a STAR system as it'll be cheaper long term than going weekly to the dealership and paying them to do the work. Research this also.....and think about it. A good idea seeing where you live and if you plan to do all your own repairs.
Again please search and research all repairs many times before simply acting as we would on older north american vehicles...this is an electrical time bomb....

 

[StalveyKyle 0]

Unfortunately I did not disconnect the power for the SAM. the problem I’m running in to is that no one here knows anything about the car, I can’t get parts anywhere locally and no one will work on them because they just don’t have the programs to do so. I drove a ford until it just wouldn’t go anymore. You could do anything to that truck and it was so simple to work on. Got this thing for cheap and don’t know anything about them. The information online is very limited. This forum is the only place I’ve found so far that has good information. But when I put the key in everything come on like normal I just get the flashing key on the dash and it won’t turn over. I didn’t put the fuel pump on a different circuit I put it on the one it came from.

[Willys 747]

Flashing key is the safety lock out picture, you need to hit the key fob to unlock your doors before trying to turn key.  Maybe also add stepping on brake pedal. Also making sure it's in neutral.

 

 

[Sydney 218]

as Willys said,  hopefully its just as simple as unlocking the car with your keyfob to disarm the imobilizer.  (flashing key on the dash).

these are really fun cars to drive,  and i actually find them pretty fun to work on. 

once you get the bugs worked out...   

the downfall of these little cars is that they are extremely electronically advanced and when things go wrong...  they go wrong $$$.   

that's why most of us up in Canada have at least 1 spare parts car  (or access to parts)

welcome to the club.

 

[BWM 87]

Use the key fob and unlock the door.

Then try to start.

Smart has an anti theft that needs to be reset after 10 min of non run time I think.

Mine has reset in lass than a min.

Must also be in neutral too.

I have driven standards for decades and just leave them in gear so it's been a learning curve for me too.

The Smart came to Canada in 2005 in diesel but the states didn't get them till 2008 in gas only.

So finding someone to work on it down there or parts will be a challenge.

Rock auto does list limited parts for them.

Even up here in Canada getting parts is limited compared to others makes, but then again most European cars were harder to source parts for other than dealers unless it sold in big numbers in North America.

Don't be afraid to ask on here as the guys n gals on this site know a lot of sources for supplies.

Ebay and Amazon also has parts for the diesel Smarts plus some of the gas smart parts fit too.

Your Smart probably started out as an import to Canada and was drove down or towed behind a motorhome there by a snow bird for a run about.

 

[smart142 605]

WOW!!!  I avoid working on the SAM's - too fragile and problematic.

In fact the smart I was driving today had that issue, no start

A local garage couldn't fix it and I bought it for parts. I determined that the fuel pump wasn't working.

I did the repair as outlined below and the car has been running fine for over 5 months now.

 

When there is a no start with the diesels here's what I do:

 

If its turning over and not starting I would check to see if its getting fuel. Easy to do. Disconnect the line to the common rail with a 14mm wrench. Turn on ignition and see if fuel is being pumped.  

 

If no fuel being pumped the problem is usually electrical - the relay in the SAM.

My solution is very inexpensive if you do the repair yourself.

 

Elevate the rear end and remove the rear belly pan.

On the passenger side you will see the fuel tank - there is a bundle of wires going to it.

 

Find the 2 thickest wires. One will be brown - cut it and then solder in a wire and run it to the frame for the ground. 

Cut the other one and add about 8 ft of wire. Run it to the drivers side - locate a rubber grommet. Poke the wire through that - it will come out under the carpet beside the drivers seat.

Run that under the carpet and up to the SAM. Add a female connector to the wire. Connect a 10 amp fuse to it. On the left side of the SAM you will see 2 wires connected. Those are the switched connectors.

Insert the other blade of the fuse into the connector beside those 2.

Turn on the ignition and you should hear the pump running.

If you hear it run the smart should now start.

If it does you can leave it as is or add a relay to the circuit 

This fix has worked for me a number of times over the last 5 years.

 

 

[StalveyKyle 0]

So far everyone on here has been very knowledgeable and I really do appreciate it! I know everyone probably has better things they could be doing but the help is amazing! 
 

yes my car did come from a snow bird that pulled in behind their motor home from Canada. Lol it’s in pretty good condition for coming from Canada as well.

 

my next mission will be replacing the AC compressor. The old one is seized up and I was given a brand new one with the car. But man it’s in a bad location. I will let you guys know how everything goes! 

[Willys 747]

3 hours ago, StalveyKyle said:

So far everyone on here has been very knowledgeable and I really do appreciate it! I know everyone probably has better things they could be doing but the help is amazing! 
 

yes my car did come from a snow bird that pulled in behind their motor home from Canada. Lol it’s in pretty good condition for coming from Canada as well.

 

my next mission will be replacing the AC compressor. The old one is seized up and I was given a brand new one with the car. But man it’s in a bad location. I will let you guys know how everything goes! 

Hope you have small hands, yes the direct opposite most men want .....so the women folk say...lol   If not get ready for a very painful experience. You'll need to drop the engine a bit to get enough clearance to even see the air con compressor......I'm not an air con guy so I remove mine to get all the extra what 1/4 HP it's robing from the engine....lol.

 

[StalveyKyle 0]

Lol living here in Florida it’s rough with no AC. My truck didn’t have AC for the last two years so I’m kinda used to not having it even in the summer heat but it would be nice to have again!! But we are getting in to our “winter” now lol so it won’t be 95 during the day it will be more like 80.