Willys

Left the beater idling for 40 minutes and all hell broke loose...!

20 posts in this topic

OK, as the title says, I made the mistake of going next door and left the engine running while inside talking to neighbor, it was in netrual.
I come out and find, headlights flashing on and off, and all lefthand side idiot lights on.  I made the next mistake and that was to shut it off.  I waited for all computers to power down and tried to start it, NOPE...I tried many many times. Same thing, it sent power to the starter but it wasn't enough to turn engine. Hmmm...?  I then jumped battery using power pack, started right up.  So drove it back home. Got the voltage tester out and the battery charger, thinking it had discharged the battery somehow while idling? It has a rebuilt alternator on it that has been turned on the lathe to get better clearance for salt and rusting issues.  Maybe because of turning it it now doesn't charge enough while idling. I check standing voltage of battery before starting engine, 12.75 volts.  a good number. Then start car, it starts easily!  doh...but all christmas tree lights are one. I check voltage being supplied, 13,65 to 14.6 volts, again good numbers. So battery is good and so is alternator.  So, I see if it's got any codes either new or stored, none..!  Hmmm...? I'm using ScanGaugeII at the moment, will hook up STAR after lunch.  So I come back into house for a second or three, then come back out and it starts perfectly with zero idiot lights on either, revs perfectly, no limp mode type issues..nothing...?  Hmmm...? So I go into town , it's 20 minutes away maybe, stops and starts perfectly again hmmmm..?  On the way back I notice that.....the power windows don't work, the indicators also don't work and I have one headlight out!  Also when I came to a traffic light the car drops down enough to slightly kick on the battery idiot light as if not enough charge.  But other than that it drives perfectly.
Now to rip SAM out and check fuses and all connections for burnt pins etc.  It has already been resoldered and headlight relays installed and new bulbs.......also the window mod hasn't been done. So they work without car turned on.  

Any way, anyone else had this issue if you leave your car idling in the driveway  only to come out and find this ....?

I'm all ears.....any suggestions.....?

 

 

I'll be back in a few minutes after pulling SAM down....augh...lol.

Thanks.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, found issue.....5 new cold solder joints on different pin rows scattered around board. Had to go to a friends place down the street to use his soldering iron set up, neither of my two irons would heat the solder into pools to allow sucker to suck. So that'll be tonight's purchase off Amazon.....Hmmm....
They weren't easy to see either, but once located obvious they were cracked al around pins. once all put back together she runs like a top again....so much for letting it idle anywhere again...lol.   

There has to be a cause for this while simply idling..?  Hmmmm...?

 

At least I found the problem and it's easily repaired, everything works as it should again. Next sunny day I'll be doing the window mod on it's own permanantly live fuse not piggy backed off another.

 

Hope this may help anyone else who suffers the same issue I just had.....again don't know why it happened, just did.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ever consider a reflow station? A bit more expensive, but if you check reviews and various electronics forums you can find cheap ones that aren't junk. They can be quite handy for that kind of work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mean a hot air station so you can blow most of the surface mounted components off the circuit board?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, seems I spoke too soon......just went to pick up prescription and it started acting up again.   First the alt belt siezed and started squealing until it decided to spin again, Hmmm...?...Then I noticed the indicators, window, lights, heater fan had all decided to quit. I kept going, got to the drug store, shut it off expecting to be calling a friend for help, but it started right back up, but still had these issues not working. Drove it home and once in driveway started fiddling with things and all of a sudden they all started working!   But not for long, now they aren't working once again.  So, lights, indicators etc aren't they all running through that silver E-Box that our fantastic gov't and all their glory demanded we install..?   So that'll be my next point of attack, open it up and see what it looks like after a winter of water dripping down...?  It's been moved but my windshield leaks like a siv still, no matter how much of the special black goo I smear on the thing...lol.
I'm not thinking the clearest at the moment this bug I have gotten has some strength to it.  I also have to wait for supper to eat the horse tablets....damn!

So any suggestions are welcome to figure this out...?    The car also...lol.    

Thanks...back tomorrow hopefully.....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

On 3/10/2020 at 3:27 PM, Willys said:

Well, seems I spoke too soon......just went to pick up prescription and it started acting up again.   First the alt belt siezed and started squealing until it decided to spin again, Hmmm...?...Then I noticed the indicators, window, lights, heater fan had all decided to quit. I kept going, got to the drug store, shut it off expecting to be calling a friend for help, but it started right back up, but still had these issues not working. Drove it home and once in driveway started fiddling with things and all of a sudden they all started working!   But not for long, now they aren't working once again.  So, lights, indicators etc aren't they all running through that silver E-Box that our fantastic gov't and all their glory demanded we install..?   So that'll be my next point of attack, open it up and see what it looks like after a winter of water dripping down...?  It's been moved but my windshield leaks like a siv still, no matter how much of the special black goo I smear on the thing...lol.
I'm not thinking the clearest at the moment this bug I have gotten has some strength to it.  I also have to wait for supper to eat the horse tablets....damn!

So any suggestions are welcome to figure this out...?    The car also...lol.    

Thanks...back tomorrow hopefully.....

 

I wonder why the alternator was seized and then freed itself? You mentioned  you had it turned to reduce the rust build up due to the minute clearance. Which should reduce the seizing issue. I wonder, did you clear coat it to protect it from further rusting afterwards? You also mentioned you had to boost it to start if after it was idling? I found that measuring the voltage doesn't mean the battery is any good. You need to do a load test to verify the amperage thats available. Otherwise the voltage is meaningless without enough amperage to crank it over. Sounds like your battery needs replacing. and what's this "silver E-Box that our fantastic gov't and all their glory demanded we install..?" that your referring to?

 

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/100a-battery-load-tester/A-p8494031e

Edited by Specter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

I picked up this soldering station for around $ 28 (on sale) that works great. If your interested, it was on sale last month, and Princess Auto will give it to you for the sale price as long as its within 30 days of the sale flyer and of coarse you have to ask for it. I always keep the weekly flyers in case I missed something on sale and then go back to the store and request the sale price which their happy to provide, but you need to ask and bring the flyer with you.

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/48w-soldering-power-station/A-p8651598e

Edited by Specter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I turned my alt after rebuilding it before buying new ones, I have 3 new ones sitting on a shelf ready....lol.  I turned it just enough to clean it up, basically fine sand paper, then sealed it with epoxy of some sort like laquer etc, can't remember what i used. I have been sick lately so haven't used the car in a few weeks maybe. And after the winter salt bath I expect it still gets corroded...? When driving it daily or semi daily it never gives me a minutes trouble, starts and drives perfectly. BUT I had washed it half way through the winter and left it idling while i washed the wife's car, it started the same flashing lights thing then....but it settled down after I moved it? Never gave me this problem. It starts fine now even, no issue at all, but it has now created this issue.  I'm not going out to freeze while I am fighting this broncular phnemonia thing, so it'll have to wait. as much as that is up setting me. I hate to be vehicle less....or have a vehicle that's not 100% reliable. I am wondering because I did clean up the armature slightly I reduced the charge while idling which then pulls down the battery and sooner or later screws up the electronics within the car?  As I said, it tests at 12.7 stopped and unhooked, and once running 13.4ish- 14.6V.....so it is capable of doing it's job once running but maybe not while idling?  I did have the heater running on 2, lights on and that's about it besides radio down low.    I don't know but it's upsetting...lol.

I'll be looking at the battery condition but when I did the alt work I did test it back then with buddies tester for load and it was OK....but it's had a winter's use...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Specter said:

I picked up this soldering station for around $ 28 (on sale) that works great. If your interested, it was on sale last month, and Princess Auto will give it to you for the sale price as long as its within 30 days of the sale flyer and of coarse you have to ask for it. I always keep the weekly flyers in case I missed something on sale and then go back to the store and request the sale price which their happy to provide, but you need to ask and bring the flyer with you.

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/48w-soldering-power-station/A-p8651598e

That is basically the same one I bought for $5 or so more but a 60 watt version.  Amazon.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, finally got out into the world today after a few weeks in the house......It took me 3 hours to come to a semi conclusion on what went wrong with the Beater....augh!!!!
First I checked battery, tested good....thankfully.

Next went after E-Box....It was on it's way to getting full of the green crap again after a year's use.....in the box around two chips mainly and also in the plugs. And I had sprayed some sort of lube or sealer on it to help try and keep it clean....didn't work.  I want to seal it solid with like nail polish but I'm afraid if i do that it may be very difficult to do any work on it in the future seeing as it's so delicate compared to the SAM's board.

Next I seriously relocated it to where the summer car's is, on the cross member under the air bag.  Hopefully it will sort of stay dry there...?

Next checked all grounding pins and they are all clean and soaked in rust check from when I sprayed under the carpets to try and keep floor intact..lol...Seemed to have worked so far.

Next went looking at headlights seeing as I lost one, yep cooked it!  Luckily I had two new ones sitting ready for summer car in the shop, oh well time to buy some more....well, maybe in a few months...lol  Bugs....?

Next I checked alt. it wasn't seized or corroded that bad at all. It was rebuilt last winter or the fall before that. Just freshened up and turned to give more clearance.  It tested as it was charging at 14.4V.
Next started it and watched it operate, seemed fine, sprayed it with some WD40 just to be safe while everything was in front of me.

OK, now....I've checked everything that was acting up......everything works great.....!     VICTORY.....!!!!!!!!      About time..!

 

 

Next was a short drive to make sure.....did about 10 or so kms.....ran great.   Open window just enjoying the drive, getting chilly, turned on heater.....with lights on.....then.......the battery warning light came on.  Hmmm......? Not looking good....everything else was working correctly, so buzzed home....raised the RPMs higher than I normally do....still light stayed on....Hmmmm...?

 

So, got home OK and then got volt meter and checked the battery, 11.2V   Hmmm....so started car....no change....DAMN....So alt's not charging no matter what RPMs it's at.

Looks like the next warmish day is changing the alt day.   I have a brand new one sittiing on shelf and also another for the summer car......so not a problem.   I am just old and sore now after that and then taking dogs for a walk.....next walk I'm bringing a 50lb weight and he can pull that and not my neck and shoulders out of whack.

So there we have it I think........the alt wasn't working all the time and draining the battery too low for the electronics to be happy campers.  At least that's what I am hoping for, especially after me changing it out in the next few days....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, broke down and was forced into shop to get something done today.   Yep, forced!    We have a full house here now. The ife is now working from hone completely, and we now have her mother living with us until the COVID-19 issue is completely gone...yep...two women and both hate being locked inside  with restrictions.....lol
So, YES, I was forced to work in the garage...lol.   Seems like things will start to get done....amazingly...lol

Anyway...I disassembled the dead ALT today and found out why it stopped charging.   Well lets say it won't be going back into service either any time soon. I basically destroyed it trying to separate the two halves because of corrosion and a semi seized outer bearing...lol  I don't need a dead ALT sitting here anyway.

It had one of the commutator rings almost completely eaten as a bit of road crap had somehow got between the brush and the rings. It wore  the ring almost to the shaft!  I have never seen a ring with that much damage done to it.  Plus like I said the outer bearing was very very loose or worn out, with uneven balls in the bearing making it get jammed if the uneven spots got stuck etc.  Then after looking carefully at the windings, they also weren't the best for wear, plenty of oily crud stuck all over them probably from me soaking the ALT trying to keep it from seizing up during the winter months...?

So that's it....a very badly worn out piece of kit.  Just glad I had 2 brand new ALTs sitting here to use.    Was it worth cleaning the armature up like I did, I think so, as it didn't get as stuck or seized as I think it would have after the bad salt days...Hmmm...?

It now has a brand new ALT on it and I hope to NEVER have to change it as long as I own the beater...lol.   I have chucked all old worn out taken apart ALTs in the scrap pile waiting for the trip when I go to the scrapyard..or better yet, when the days get here again when I put scrap at the end of the driveway and the local guy comes and takes it away for me.  I am not collecting worn out items just to take up valuable space in my shop from now on.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rings are called collector rings and can easily be replaced provided you have the needed unTrump IQ and skills. Commutators are used in dynamos.  

Just wonder what you Williy’s have done in your life when you do not know better. A typical idiot misguided Trump supporter obviously. There are lots of them in America and they will soon suffer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow

 

 

anyway...i tend to call them slip rings

 

im pretty sure my alternator rebuild guy also calls them slip rings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

33 minutes ago, tolsen said:

A typical idiot misguided Trump supporter obviously. There are lots of them in America and they will soon suffer. 

 

First of all, we are Canadians. Trump is not our president and we did not vote for him. You are at a relatively safe distance; we have him next door...

 

Secondly: who spat in your haggis this morning??

Edited by Smart42
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

or shat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tolsen said:

The rings are called collector rings and can easily be replaced provided you have the needed unTrump IQ and skills. Commutators are used in dynamos.  

Just wonder what you Williy’s have done in your life when you do not know better. A typical idiot misguided Trump supporter obviously. There are lots of them in America and they will soon suffer. 

Hmmm....Have you been told today Tolson...because you are asking for it....Just because I forget or use the incorrect words terminology doesn't mean I do not know how to or have the years of experience to do such work...becarefull....just saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Smart42 said:

Picture??

Not any more...lol. Gone....as in destroyed....I own many hammers for many different uses....lol.  
I also know about changing those ruined parts, also brushes and windings whatever they are called that are soldered to back cover....I do not need to rebuild old crap parts when i have brand new parts sitting on the shelf, IF I didn't and I don't think i did when I messed with this ALT before, and I wanted to see if turning it would completely solve the seizing issues, it didn't, so a new one goes on and no more messing rebuilding old crap just to see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please keep the personal attacks and  political comments to yourself. 

 

The OP is looking for help in solving a real problem that he encountered.   Some of the above comments are not, in any way, helpful and are not even close to helping in correcting the issue mentioned in the first post.  Please stick to the topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

    Chatbox
    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More